Go with 255 or 190 walbro?

[Dred]

I got a stock setup, and it's only going to be mildly modded in the nearest future. Staying with stock injectors for the time being.

Which is better to get, the 190 or the 255. I found a place where they cost close to the same price, so I'm trying to figure out which would work better.

 

[BaddAssGst]

Go with the 190. Many people go with the 255, but in fact, that is overkill. If your only doing a mild set-up, a 190 will be fine. With a 255, you'll definitely over run your stock FPR so you end up spending more money on an adjustable FPR.

As far as pricing goes, extremepsi has them for 95 bucks shipped. Can't beat that at all.

 

[andymoraitis]

I agree 1000%. The 190 will take you far when coupled with the right injectors and you can rewire to squeeze some more flow. AFPR's can only complicate the tuning equation so if you don't need one, stay away from a pump that requires them.

Cheers!

Andy

 

[90REkTSi]

I agree 1000%. The 190 will take you far when coupled with the right injectors and you can rewire to squeeze some more flow. AFPR's can only complicate the tuning equation so if you don't need one, stay away from a pump that requires them.

Cheers!

Andy

Would a 190 pump on stock rail and injectors support 18psi or is that too much boost for that setup?

 

[andymoraitis]

Would a 190 pump on stock rail and injectors support 18psi or is that too much boost for that setup?

If you're referring to your 14B, it might and likely will, but I wouldn't recommend it unless you could hook up a logger and try it first at 16 and then step up. I would say 16 is probably a safe place to stop on stock injectors. I'd log it and see what happens to timing and knock to be sure.

Let us know how it goes.

Andy

 

[ZmanIV]

another member reported high HP #'s with a rewired 190 and other stock fuel delivery components. I got mine last month from importevolution for $92 included new installation kit.

 

[Agent11br]

190 all the way...got mine from extreme psi for 95 bucks. The install is pretty straight forward. I used the vfaq one. The lower fuel line fitting was a major PITA to break loose, but once its off its a cakewalk.

I run 17-18psi on my b16g with stock injectors and my timing curve is pretty decent. I tune with a maft and logger.

IMO the 255 is so frikin overkill. I was running 14 psi on my b16g with the same setup minus the pump and still could have pushed it with some finer tuning to somewhere around 15-15.5 easliy. People dont give the stock pump a chance. They then jump to a 255 for their 16g/14b setup which is simply wayy too much. You then need (which is argued over and over, btw in the end people end up buying one b/c its a neccessity) a fuel pressure regulator.

Now if you are running lets say a 20g, or 50-60 trim at anything over 16psi I would then think a 255 is ideal. But anything smaller its not worth it, unless you are shooting for 20+ psi range with 650cc+ injectors. Hell lots of people run a 190 with 650's and a key driver chip and are fine at levels around 16-19psi.

For the original question asked, IMO go with a 190 and/or get a tuning device (to max out the stocker first)

 

[daren_p]

I'm basically in agreement with the others. If your only going to slightly mod your car then the 190 will be fine (and you can make some pretty good hp numbers with the 190). If you are eventually going to upgrade to a larger turbo & don't mind the extra $ for an adjustable fpr then go with the 255 so you won't have to upgrade in the future.

 

[blcknspo0ln]

keep in mind that half the people that get 255's DONT get an AFPR. which is a BAD thing to do. so if you do decide to go with the 255, please remember to get an adjustable FPR for it.

but just to add to everyone elses opinion, get a rewired 190.. bench racing says that thing is good to supply fuel for up to ~400whp

 

[Dred]

Thnx alot guys
You're all awesome, and w/ great input.
190 rewired it is

 

[andymoraitis]

Good choice and I'm glad we could help,

Andy

 

[Mackzero]

A little late, but I agree with the others... 255 is overkill, plain and simple.

 

[90REkTSi]

A little late, but I agree with the others... 255 is overkill, plain and simple.

Yeah thanks for all your replies! So i have a dattalogger on its way,it should be here next week. Um goin to order the 190 pump from Extreme PSi and one more question...550 injectors or would 650 injectors be overkill?

 

[heavypedalmuzic]

once you do an injector upgrade you'll need something like an afc to tune them or you'll be running rich.

 

[Dred]

Yeah thanks for all your replies! So i have a dattalogger on its way,it should be here next week. Um goin to order the 190 pump from Extreme PSi and one more question...550 injectors or would 650 injectors be overkill?

If you're gettin all that, extremePSI has a bundle w/ a sAFI injectors and a fuel pump for like 616$

 

[Agent11br]

#1 you must have some sort of fuel tuning insturment to run the bigger injectors.

If you are going to use a MAFT then the biggest you can go without a keydriver chip is 550's

If you are going to use an SAFC you can go with the 650's

I love my MAFT, simplest tool to tune with, very user friendly, best bang for the buck b/c of the additional benefits you get.

Hope that helps, Im sure others will chime in

 

[andymoraitis]

Yup, I agree with Agent11. The MAFT will do well for you as would an EPROM ECU with a Keydiver Stage III and injector deadtime compensation. I have and prefer the Keydiver setup, but either one will do well. Whatever you do, don't use an AFC as your only tuning device. It's fine as a supplement to perform fine tuning, but better adjustment can be had with an MAFT, DSMLink or Keydiver chip.

As far a injectors go, I'd do it like this since you said you're going for mild mods:

14B to Big 16G - 550cc
EVO III 16G - 660cc

Good luck!

Andy

 

[steve]

Good advice so far.

Would a 190 pump on stock rail and injectors support 18psi or is that too much boost for that setup?

You'll run out of injector before you hit 18 psi. Log the Injector Pulse Width and Duty Cycle. At stock fuel pressure you'll see that it doesn't take a whole lot more boost to max them out. Raising the base pressure will extend them a bit.

I don't agree with andy on the SAFC as your only tuning device. It's a better tuning device than a MAFT because you have much more control over the way compensation is applied than the couple of dials on the MAFT. But I just program new chips now to tune and the SAFC only gets used while testing other peoples ECU's.

Steve

 

[ihatedsms]

i had a re-wired 190 fp on my car with mild mods on (stock 14b), and had exhaust, boost controller, and a clutch, i ran 20 pounds, all day with no problem and i eventually got a 255 and my car pulled way harder and was 3 tenths quiker at the track and i had no fpr or any fuel control, so i think you might as well have a 255, so thats proven on my car that a 255 is not overkill, the only thing it will do is make your car faster, well at least thats what happend on my car

 

[steve]

i had no fpr or any fuel control, so i think you might as well have a 255, so thats proven on my car that a 255 is not overkill, the only thing it will do is make your car faster

Do you have any idea what your IDCs were or your base FP was when you were doing this?

Steve

 

[andymoraitis]

Good advice so far.

I don't agree with andy on the SAFC as your only tuning device. It's a better tuning device than a MAFT because you have much more control over the way compensation is applied than the couple of dials on the MAFT.

Steve

I'll need to extract foot from mouth on that one since the AFC is much more tunable than an MAFT when compared one on one.

However, I do still feel that something like an EPROM ECU or DSMLink eats an AFC's lunch and provides a much better, and in the case of the EPROM ECU, simpler tuning solution than an AFC. I've had an AFC and couldn't wait to get rid of it as I felt I was constantly chasing my tail when it came to getting the settings just right.

Thanks for disagreeing agreeably,

Andy

 

[johnk]

If your tunning fuel you need some kind of logging and DSM link provides both. And yes it tunes way better especially if your using big injectors.

 

[Turbo Talon DL]

I also believe in the re-wired walbro 255. I dont mind needing an AFPR, its another useful variable for tuning. Run higher base fuel pressure, or lower without so much trim from the AFC, then you stay on the factory timing maps better. Without, you'll be running at -35%, and its gonna advance timing. I think its a good idea to use the afc with DSMLink, Keydiver, and the maf-t, it would help with fine tuning, and things the ecu itself wont correct. Did you say you had a 2g mas? And to the guy talking about staying on the stock fuel pump past 16psi, why? Give the stock pump a chance, yeah, to blow my engine and not supply enough fuel by some fluke of nature. I still dont know why people bi*** about getting an afpr, its only going to help. You'll go out and buy big injectors and no fpr to adjust fuel press. for them but you wont spend money on at least an Ebay afpr? !

 

[andymoraitis]

I think an AFPR can be helpful in a high horsepower situation where it's needed to control a 255 on a big turbo, but the original poster is only mildly modding his car and may never see a turbo above a 16G, in which case a 190 will be fine. I also think an AFPR would be useful, as you mentioned, for dialing up fuel pressure if your injectors are exceeding a safe IDC and you wanted to give them a bit more range, but it's more of a band aid than doing the right thing (using the correct injectors in the first place).

As far as the AFC, if he uses DSMLink, it would be a waste, but having one to fine tune with an MAFT or Keydiver chip is a great idea since it allows for those little tweaks up top that won't kill the timing maps and make them insanely high.

Just my 2 cents and it reminds me that there are as many ways to tune as there are people on this planet.

Cheers,

Andy

 

[BaddAssGst]

Do any of you guys think that if the guy is going for mild mods, that DsmLink is overkill, just like him getting a 255? As far as I'm concerned, basic modding only needs basic tuning. Therefore an AFC and datalogger are more then capable of tuning his 550s or 650s and what not.

I'm not saying anything is wrong with DSMlink because I think it's a great thing to have and many guys have found it much easier to use then using everything else the Link already has. I just think that you guys are bringing up things that he is not looking at doing..