Getting a alky injection system....

[doug]

When I first started researching this, I was convinced I wanted the boost-correlated water injection so that the amount of water injected matched boost pressure. After thinking about it more, though, I've decided that this really isn't necessary IMO since you really only need water injection at max boost since that's mainly where you would encounter knock. What is the reason for wanting the injection system to kick in at lower boost pressures? I'm sincerely asking since I don't know much about this yet.

 

[MNGSX]

You have DSM link...

IMHO.. If E85 is available at pumps in your area. Go with an injector 1.5x what you have now and run alcohol fuel... It will be the most reliable and cost effective way.

At idle and cruise you can run it "lean burn". That is alot leaner than its optimum power air fuel ratio...

I'm recomending going that way because you already have 98% of the parts you need to do it and it just works so damn good..

 

[doug]

I don't think we have E85 around here; I don't even know what that is. I'm assuming it's some kind of 85/15 gas/ethanol mix?

 

[MNGSX]

Yes its 85% Alcohol 15% gas. I hit up a Alt fuels website I know there is some in Jacksonville.

SAAB found 30hp with it on a boring family sedan....

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=161213&highlight=SAAB

I have found alot more over running gas on my rig. The 98% mix is wicked but I need more compression ratio..

 

[Mackzero]

I don't believe we have E85 around here either..... Besides, I do not want to only get ~200 miles to a tank. I will do a little more research and make some calls to Julio as to why he does the progressive control, and any neg. effects this has when running at lower pump voltages. I am sure he and others have tested these things, I just want to get some info. that has been backed up by data.

 

[MNGSX]

With DSM link you could map for gas and have a map for the alcohol..

You'd get more than 200 a tank... Well not driven like a bat out of hell... the rest of the time yes... You'll drop 4mpg but the knock count (like nothing) even on hot days is worth it.

 

[Mackzero]

And filling up with regular gas when you are low on E85 wouldn't be a problem I take it. Interesting... good info. though, thanks!

 

[MNGSX]

Not with something programable like DSM link...

You need to have a saved tune for both fuels and can't mix... Atleast with Link or AEM or anything out now.. All the car companies have stuff that can.. We dont.

EDIT I'll finish the sentance

All the car companies have stuff that can automatically adjust the tune for what ever the current mix is. Its a sensor wich can sense the fuels properties via capacitance etc.... So 85/15, 55/45, 45/55. or even 15/85 is fine... Just dump it in the tank.

 

[Car Cannibal]

MNGSX, are you running E85 with only larger injectors, not a complete alky ready fuel system? E85 is 105 octane and needs 40% more fuel, its also not very good in the winter time concerning cold starts.

There is no problem with the progressives low end. I am not going to comment on it but hope that Julio will come on and talk about that and why water is a waste of time compared to straight meth.

 

[TargeT]

I am not going to comment on it but hope that Julio will come on and talk about that and why water is a waste of time compared to straight meth.
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I thought about this alot too,

& after reviewing logs i decided to go for the "all or nothing" system, when tuned right you don't "bog" I have my alch kick in @ 15+ PSI (depending on where knock starts)

Sure i shoot flame & black smoke, but the knock is zero & the car gets up and moves

 

[vertGST]

I looked on his web site, but not knowing much about alcohol/water injection, I have a question. Does this kit include something that references boost so that it injects a proportionate amount of alky/water, or is it just a on/off type thing?

doug, jimmy is running water/methanol injection. just ask him. i talked to him and said its definitly worth it and definitly a huge difference. i am thinking about it myself once i get the ball rolling on starting to mod again.

 

[TargeT]

doug, jimmy is running water/methanol injection. just ask him. i talked to him and said its definitly worth it and definitly a huge difference. i am thinking about it myself once i get the ball rolling on starting to mod again.

as for the difference, (I run PURE alch, though i use ethenol (easyer to get my hands on, just buy denatured alch paint thiner @ hardware stores hehe) )

I went from 17PSI with some knock on a 16g to 24PSI with less knock (till i twisted a rod on my stock 7bolt)

a 5PSI at the upper ends of the 16g's limits is amazing, the car would break 4 R compound tires loose in 1st when i stomped on it. (autox was fun )

 

[doug]

doug, jimmy is running water/methanol injection. just ask him.

Yeah, I looked at his setup at the last meet. It's pretty nice. I'm still early in the learning stages on this, though.

 

[flsupraguy]

Dallas J

The kit you have looks great, can you post some more pics? I'm thinking about getting the same kit on my car. How hard would you say the install/tune was?

Thanks.

 

[98spydert]

There is no problem with the progressives low end. I am not going to comment on it but hope that Julio will come on and talk about that and why water is a waste of time compared to straight meth.

Why is water a waste of time? I thought the idea was that the vaporizing of water absorbs latent heat, cooling the high temp in the comb chamber? I don't know much about these set ups but look forward to using one in the future after I learn more.

 

[Car Cannibal]

Check this out
http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=125790&highlight=water+meth

The more meth you cram in the better inlet temps and combustion. Its been proven on the GN's that pure meth can run more boost than just water or any other combo out there on the same system and tune. Julio can comment more on this with better info and facts.

 

[98spydert]

Well obviously water isn't a "waste" But thanksfor the numbers. I guess it's either or... just pay for the methonal or use free distilled water. No point in mixing for a minimal change like less than 5 degrees.

 

[MNGSX]

MNGSX, are you running E85 with only larger injectors, not a complete alky ready fuel system? E85 is 105 octane and needs 40% more fuel, its also not very good in the winter time concerning cold starts.
.

You are not telling me anything I dont know....

1. I run 1680cc injectors... Yes 1680.... I have ran 98% alcohol. 1.66x as much fuel...
2. Yes E85 starts hard in the winter. Options are cold start injectors, intake grid heaters, fuel rail/line heaters.. etc.. If you actually drive that car in the winter.. I dont. Also the winter mixes at stations are more like 65% alcohol... only in the winter....

3. The E98 starts hard in the summer... I'm upping compression (alot) and adding a cold start sytem. The E85 is fine (+better than gas) on the same CR as people run gas on and due to the 15% gas content starts fine even on a cold engine in the summer.

The main point is that with only 40% larger injectors and a double check of the FPR, Pump and reg he could probably run it.. Some pumps and regs are ethanol tolerant some are'nt.. Just make sure you get info from a MFG on Ethanol tolerance. Since most "no alcohol" ratings on parts assume methanol which will eat injectors if not flushed out when you are done running it.

I'll let you guys hash out your original topic... I just thought I'd say this works better.... PM if you want links to extreme tech on it like university E85 vehicle conversions and how to guides etc...

 

[dsm5062]

Do you have any install pics of your kit dallas j the ones in your previous post arent displaying? I have a kit sitting that I am going to be installing soon and would appreciate the info since I am deciding where to mount the pump and reservoir. Also any tips on a starting point with the progressive controller settings?