Getting a alky injection system....

[Mackzero]

Allright guys, I talked with Julio @ Alkycontrol (www.alkycontrol.com) and I am going to be putting a system together for my 90 GSX. Is there anything you guys would want me cover in detail when I put the kit together and install it? I have no way of logging intake temps unfortunately but I can log everything else. Also, if anyone is interested in getting one of these systems, PM me. They are around $450-500 when everything's said and done. From what the Buick guys say, Julio's system is the best, and doesn't fail.

 

[Mackzero]

And just to let all the guys that don't know....

The main purpose of this system is to eliminate knock when running high boost levels on pump gas.

 

[doug]

I looked on his web site, but not knowing much about alcohol/water injection, I have a question. Does this kit include something that references boost so that it injects a proportionate amount of alky/water, or is it just a on/off type thing?

 

[raped]

there are different models that he sells but the top of the line changes voltage to the pump based on boost pressure.

 

[Mackzero]

I looked on his web site, but not knowing much about alcohol/water injection, I have a question. Does this kit include something that references boost so that it injects a proportionate amount of alky/water, or is it just a on/off type thing?

Yes, it uses a controller he developed which uses a GM 3-bar MAP sensor. It can read up to 30 psi. And you can adjust when the water/alky. is injected and at what rate. What he told me is that if you get boost creep, then the system will compensate and add more to help combat detenation.

 

[Diplomat]

"Is there anything you guys would want me cover in detail when I put the kit together and install it?" - Mackzero

If you have the time to snap a few pictures during install to make a Tech Article, it would be one helpful link we could point people to when they have questions about alcohol/water injection.

 

[TURFNNSURF]

Hey Mack, I don't mean to hyjack your thread but I wanted to offer some input. Have you looked into a few other companies?? To me $400-$500 seems a little much for a basic water/alcohol injection. Here are two other posibilities.

http://www.snowperformance.net/products.asp?id=1

http://www.coolingmist.com/

And a "HOW TO" for the do-it-yourself'ers
http://www.turbomirage.com/water3.html

 

[Dallas J]

I have the Alky Contol kit on my car. It took me a while to install (read Months ) because of not having the time to do it, and I changed my mind on where I wanted to mount all the stuff.

Julio worked with me the whole time, and sent me out several resevoirs for me to try out. He definately had good service, and had my parts out promptly when I was ready for them.

Im using my greddy map sensor to give a boost signal to the controller.

I can take some pics later and post them on how I mounted everything if you want, matter of fact, Ill go take some right now.

So far the kit is great. Its helped with my uncontrollable knock Ive been having, but I have yet to try it on a higher boost so far.

-Dallas J

 

[Dallas J]

Heres 2 of how its mounted

In this picture you can see the led above the boost gauge that turns on when the pump turns on.

This is where I mounted the controller. The trim is my ghetto vacuume line job. One day I might redo it to make it more visually appealing. But for now its solid.

 

[TargeT]

http://www.smcenterprises.com/alcohol.htm

Made my kit, he'll costum make anything you want, works great

I went from running 17psi to 24PSI on pump gas (results, of course may vary)

 

[liquordrunk]

how does this work with the mixture of water and alky whats the percentage and how long does it last when you start runnin the kit as it it will last longer the bigger the size of your tank with alky and water in it or whatare the sizes of your bottle dallas J and how long does it last

 

[Mackzero]

Great info guys! Yes, $400-500 is expensive, but Julio has the best controller out there, and his pumps seem to never fail. As they say, you get what you pay for. I would rather pay $100 more, but know that what I bought has someone backing it that will follow through when I have problems or questions.

 

[91AWDDSM]

Its his controler thats a big price. Most people just use a Hobbs switch to turn on and off the flow based on a preset psi. These switches are like $20 from Napa. Seperatly, his progressive controler is $190...

That pump is a Shurflo, preatty much what everyone uses...

His price is fairly close to the price of an aquamist setup, which its compariable in controler, etc...

 

[Mackzero]

Correct, the main thing I am baseing my decision on is the fact that he is well respected in the Buick community and people that I have talked with are very happy with his system and have had no problems.

 

[Car Cannibal]

I am installing Julio's kit also, just waiting on the lines now. This is the best, most complete kit available on the market. Running 25psi on 50/50 Meth/Wat will be no problem, and if it is, Julio will be there to answer all my questions asap. Thats why you pay the extra dough, for the best parts and service.

 

[Jehu]

I still believe that variable water injection rates can only be accomplished via pulsed injection. The alky control controller is a variable voltage device that slows down the DC water pump motor. Great, except now you also have lower pressure. A low pressure head leads to poor atomization. I'd rather have a dual stage pressure switch activated system, though I wouldn't use a hobbs switch. There are other switches on the market that are more reliable and cost effective...

 

[Mackzero]

I understand this but if the pressure is enough in the first place, then rises from there, you would be o.k. correct?

 

[MNGSX]

I look at the Alky injection kits as a knock deterent then look at the cost (minimal) and hassle (minimal) of converting to E85 and am glad I went that way... When you only burn 15% gas its easy to run big boost on the street and alot harder to goof on timing....

Edit
You'd need 800 to 1000cc injectors however.

 

[Jehu]

AFAIK the controller ramps up from 0-12V. i.e. there will be a portion of time, maybe from 0-8V, where the pump is probably running too slowly to generate enough pressure.

 

[bowerboy_1]

Hey anybody whats the install time on an alky injection kit and can you mount a resovior in the trunk?

 

[TTA89]

Julio is one of the nicest guys you will meet. I have his kit on my Turbo TA (he has one also) & have great results running a best of 11.39 on pump gas so far & there is more tunning & boost left in it. I am getting one for my 92 AWD in the near future. I plan on mounting my pump where the charcoal canister is. & hopefully building a bracket for the tank where the battery would sit.

Any more pics or results would be nice.

Thanks

 

[TargeT]

Hey anybody whats the install time on an alky injection kit and can you mount a resovior in the trunk?

you want the resivor close to the delivery point so your pump will be more effective. relocate your battery to the trunk, put the tank where the battery was. thats how i did it

 

[Dallas J]

Another place you can mount things are where the stock SMIC is.

I was gonna do that, but as you can tell from my pictures above I decided to relocate everything.

You also get a better weight distribution by not having everything on the nose of the car, at least thats how I looked at it.

-Dallas J

 

[Car Cannibal]

Jehu, its a progressive kit, the system needs to run lower pressure down low otherwise you will bog it out. The beauty of the kit is that you can bring on the flow around 5psi and then slowly bring it up to full boost. You will not get any transistional knock with a prog kit and I believe Julio runs 139 psi on the top end with his kit. He is using two nozzles now, a 15 and 10 I believe, and most of his kits come with the 15 which I am going to use.

Mounting mine where the old SMIC was and am using the exsisting washer bottle for a stealthy set up. Pics soon.

 

[Jehu]

Jehu, its a progressive kit, the system needs to run lower pressure down low otherwise you will bog it out. The beauty of the kit is that you can bring on the flow around 5psi and then slowly bring it up to full boost.

Ahh...and there's the crux of the problem. The system bogs not because of too much pressure, but because of too much water. You're trying to reduce the amount of water by decreasing the amount of pressure. Sure, that works. Except there's the pesky little thing called atomization. Most nozzles require around 40psi of differential pressure to atomize properly. While you're system is ramping up to full pressure, there will be a period of time when the water will not be adequately atomized. Using your example, the pump turns on at 5psi. What if you're going on a gentle incline at 7psi? Your pump will be on, but at low pressure, maybe 10psi of water pressure. Water is going to drip into your intake, not spray.

Which is why I believe you always want to have full system pressure to adequately atomize the water. If water output needs to be varied, then use solenoid pulsing to control the amount of water being injected. Look at modern fuel injection. No system I know of uses a variable speed motor to control the amount of fuel injected into the engine. Why? Atomization.