Fully Built 6-bolt 4G63T goes KABOOM! only 19 miles, lawsuit?

[Fortium2012]

UPDATE @ REPLY #23, SCROLL DOWN BELOW!

Hi, I was wondering if I can have some advice.....
I own a '90 TSi AWD 5spd., and had a '90 4G63 professionally built/installed in my car. After install, I drove it for 3 miles; the car bucked hard @ low RPM's and stalled when no throttle was applied. I called a DSM shop and they say it's Base Timing that wasn't set. I drive it to them, and leave it for the day. They call me and say, "The 'Crank T-Belt Gear' is the incorrect gear so we're unable to find TDC (no timing mark). We checked your compression and it's 210 across. Your CAS was also 180deg. out so I reset it". Which I didn't understand b'c when the mechanics swapped it, they put it on the same way it came off of my other engine. The shop also said I had the wrong plugs: BKR7E11, should be BPR7E11. He told me there's no space for my car to stay there so I asked if it was safe to drive home (30 minutes away). He told me I can, but to NOT hit boost. I leave, less than 1 mile and 3 minutes later... "clak, clak, clink, (deep) THUD!". The engine doesn't want to crank, like something inside's pushing against ea. other inside. I towed the car home.
Next morning, I decide to check the spark plugs. Burnt, burnt, crushed, burnt. The crushed plug's threads were perfect, but where it threads into the head was flat! I couldn't see far enough down, but I can't tell if the piston is eaten up, or if it's the plug's pieces sitting on top of the piston. HKS cam gears look a little out of align as well. I tried to rotate the crank, but won't move. All 3 shops deny mechanical failure from their service! I've been going through "He said, but he said, and this shop said..." all day. Can someone please help me? I'm $10k into this car.
Thanks,
Chris

P.S. If you want a mod list, I'll list it.

 

[xveganxcowboyx]

If the theory is correct the shop is absolutely liable. If it was a parts failure maybe not, but this is a total failure based on incompetant work by one of their mechanics. A base level of competancy in labor is expected when you pay someone else to do work for you, whether performance or not. If the same thing happened on a basic rebuild they would be liable, as they should be here.

 

[Fortium2012]

Makes total sense to me. Answer the following:

1. After the first three miles (per your original post), How did you get your car to the DSM shop?
2. Did they charge you for their investigation?
3. If so do you have the receipt?
4. What was the last thing the perf shop said to you?
5. Will the DSM shop put the original diagnosis in writing?
6. What exactly does the rear of the receipt(s) say?
7. What is the price quote to get your motor straight?
8. How did the car get from the machine shop to the perf. shop? Or was just the engine sent over?
9. Did the perf shop do an examination of the newly rebuilt motor and note any defects?

Just curious - when the problem first surfaced in those 3 miles, why didn't you just go right back to the perf. shop?????

1. I drove it across town, approx. 16 mis. (maybe more)
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. "You can drive it home safely, just don't hit boost"
5. Not sure, already threatened them with BBB & court after my engine seized leaving their shop
6. Never looked, I'll post tonight
7. $1200-$1500
8. Engine was picked up from machine shop via original owner by contract w/sale... taken to my friend's garage, he and another mechanic swapped it. Engine was setup by Machine Shop as "direct drop-in" (timing belt set, marks @ TDC cyl.#1, etc.)... drove car for 3 miles, bucked... called DSM shop and setup appt. which they say it needs "base ignition timing" to be set.
9. Perf. Shop did comp. test: 210 across, checked oil/coolant levels, spark plugs, timing belt assy., declared crank t-belt gear incorrect (and who knows what else, but that's what was on the receipt)... gear was from Mitsu for 4G63T, how would it be wrong?

I feel I have what I need for court, but lawyer says it needs to be CLEARLY/DEFINITE of what perf. shop did to cause it. Current neutral shop is trying to figure how to presented/proven.

 

[Fortium2012]

You had race parts in a race car,thats what it's going to come down to.The only person thats going to pay is you.Everybody trys to sue these shops,have you ever looked at the back of the receipt

Yeah, that's been at the back of my head the entire time .I've been contemplating just parting the car out, but trying to remain patient.
Back of receipt is blank, nothing written, no print, etc. BLANK.

 

[Fortium2012]

If the theory is correct the shop is absolutely liable. If it was a parts failure maybe not, but this is a total failure based on incompetant work by one of their mechanics. A base level of competancy in labor is expected when you pay someone else to do work for you, whether performance or not. If the same thing happened on a basic rebuild they would be liable, as they should be here.

I'd think as well. A performance shop would work on performance engines and not just stockers, b'c that's what some are in business for. To work on a race engine and it seizes, then shrug your shoulders how would you stay open? You'd specialize in that kinda thing so others would come y'know? Ergh...
Everyone here has been WAY MORE helpful than my lawyer and I'm paying him. Anyone with paypal, .

 

[drivemusicnow]

I'd think as well. A performance shop would work on performance engines and not just stockers, b'c that's what some are in business for. To work on a race engine and it seizes, then shrug your shoulders how would you stay open? You'd specialize in that kinda thing so others would come y'know? Ergh...
Everyone here has been WAY MORE helpful than my lawyer and I'm paying him. Anyone with paypal, .

Here is what I would do.

I'd ask the Shop that just tore down the motor to "PLEASEEEE" write a formal letter, hell, offer to type it if they will sign it showing that the engine failed in a way that indicated a BUILDER ERROR, no part failure could have caused the damage in such and such fashion.

Be formal, make it wordy, but DON'T lie. DO NOT put anything in there that isn't a truth. Have whoever tore down the engine sign this letter stating that in their proffesional opinion this is what happened, and this is why it happened.


Take this letter to the shop first. explain what you want (The dollar value for another shop to fix your engine to the condition it was in BEFORE the shop touched it.) If they don't immediately handle it, Take the letter, all reciepts, all notes on the conversations etc to your lawyer and ask him to take this to court.

IF it does go to a lawsuit, ask for you lawyers fees as part of the compensation, explaining that you gave them plenty of opportunity to solve this problem out of court, however they refused.


I'd run this idea by your lawyer, however basically if that other shop will sign something and then give you a written detailed estimate to fix the car, you should be in good shape.

 

[Fortium2012]

Here is what I would do.

I'd ask the Shop that just tore down the motor to "PLEASEEEE" write a formal letter, hell, offer to type it if they will sign it showing that the engine failed in a way that indicated a BUILDER ERROR, no part failure could have caused the damage in such and such fashion.

Be formal, make it wordy, but DON'T lie. DO NOT put anything in there that isn't a truth. Have whoever tore down the engine sign this letter stating that in their proffesional opinion this is what happened, and this is why it happened.


Take this letter to the shop first. explain what you want (The dollar value for another shop to fix your engine to the condition it was in BEFORE the shop touched it.) If they don't immediately handle it, Take the letter, all reciepts, all notes on the conversations etc to your lawyer and ask him to take this to court.

IF it does go to a lawsuit, ask for you lawyers fees as part of the compensation, explaining that you gave them plenty of opportunity to solve this problem out of court, however they refused.


I'd run this idea by your lawyer, however basically if that other shop will sign something and then give you a written detailed estimate to fix the car, you should be in good shape.

Hey thanks.
I'll call the neutral shop and see if we can get the ball rolling here, then I'll be back with an update.

 

[Fortium2012]

Hey thanks.
I'll call the neutral shop and see if we can get the ball rolling here, then I'll be back with an update.

Everything worked out in the end .
My engine will be fixed and re-assembled as it was before, at VERY MINIMAL cost.
Thanks guys, I'll be giving out "props/feedbacks/points/reputation" (whatever it's called).
I guess there are some outstanding people out there, and it couldn't have come at a better time... word spread out to other tuners and shops, and I got excellent help. Who would've known, a happy ending. This is for all of those who got screwed.
Merry X-mas!

 

[sYnOnYx]

glad to hear it bro,

this makes me not want to have someone else build my motor , and build my first motor..... i hate shops.

 

[Fortium2012]

glad to hear it bro,

this makes me not want to have someone else build my motor , and build my first motor..... i hate shops.

Thanks... have fun with it!
BTW, I've been searching through forums and can't find where it explains how to leave "rep. pts.". Could someone point me in the direction?
I have a lot to give out.
-Chris

 

[drivemusicnow]

Thanks... have fun with it!
BTW, I've been searching through forums and can't find where it explains how to leave "rep. pts.". Could someone point me in the direction?
I have a lot to give out.
-Chris

You've already given me some, however because you're still a "newbie" they don't register until you yourself have points.

You give rep points out by using the little scale underneath the persons name. I usually sign it with my screen name such that they know who it was giving them the points.

I'm glad your situation has been taken care of, and I hope everything goes well for you. Have a Merry Christmas as well.

 

[Fortium2012]

You've already given me some, however because you're still a "newbie" they don't register until you yourself have points.

You give rep points out by using the little scale underneath the persons name. I usually sign it with my screen name such that they know who it was giving them the points.

I'm glad your situation has been taken care of, and I hope everything goes well for you. Have a Merry Christmas as well.

Ooohhhhh, okay gotcha.
Thanks.

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