Fully Built 6-bolt 4G63T goes KABOOM! only 19 miles, lawsuit?

[Fortium2012]

UPDATE @ REPLY #23, SCROLL DOWN BELOW!

Hi, I was wondering if I can have some advice.....
I own a '90 TSi AWD 5spd., and had a '90 4G63 professionally built/installed in my car. After install, I drove it for 3 miles; the car bucked hard @ low RPM's and stalled when no throttle was applied. I called a DSM shop and they say it's Base Timing that wasn't set. I drive it to them, and leave it for the day. They call me and say, "The 'Crank T-Belt Gear' is the incorrect gear so we're unable to find TDC (no timing mark). We checked your compression and it's 210 across. Your CAS was also 180deg. out so I reset it". Which I didn't understand b'c when the mechanics swapped it, they put it on the same way it came off of my other engine. The shop also said I had the wrong plugs: BKR7E11, should be BPR7E11. He told me there's no space for my car to stay there so I asked if it was safe to drive home (30 minutes away). He told me I can, but to NOT hit boost. I leave, less than 1 mile and 3 minutes later... "clak, clak, clink, (deep) THUD!". The engine doesn't want to crank, like something inside's pushing against ea. other inside. I towed the car home.
Next morning, I decide to check the spark plugs. Burnt, burnt, crushed, burnt. The crushed plug's threads were perfect, but where it threads into the head was flat! I couldn't see far enough down, but I can't tell if the piston is eaten up, or if it's the plug's pieces sitting on top of the piston. HKS cam gears look a little out of align as well. I tried to rotate the crank, but won't move. All 3 shops deny mechanical failure from their service! I've been going through "He said, but he said, and this shop said..." all day. Can someone please help me? I'm $10k into this car.
Thanks,
Chris

P.S. If you want a mod list, I'll list it.

 

[91gsxboosted]

Hey as long as you have the receipts you should have a lawsuit on your hands. I went through the same thing with my camaro before I bought my eclipse. The only thing that kind of sucks is you can only due small claims for 5,000. As long as you have the receipts you should be able to sue and win. I won mine though I never got paid(guy filed for bankruptcy).
-Joey

 

[Game Over]

AWWW dude I feel so bad for you. It makes me feel woozy too because mine is coming out of shop within the next week with a built 6 bolt too.

I hope you get everything worked out. I would just call a lawyer and see what they say if you explain your situation and then take it to small claims, even though you may have to sue more then one of the shops.

 

[Fortium2012]

Thanks for the input guys. I've been kind of numb all day and zoning out. It was the first time I was able to drive it in 2 months, and all that time money just kept going in it. The performance shop told me to call the machine shop and blame it on them. They say,"Call the machine shop, and don't even mention our names, don't tell them we worked on it". They wanted me to tell the machine shop that as soon as I started it, it blew. I called the machine shop later and informed them of this info.; and they were quite angry, and stood behind their work 100% rather than blame or run away. Machine shop said I can come on by or call up anytime if I need anything . How long does a process like this usually take from beginning to end?

 

[BobPell]

I am a little confused. Who rebuilt the motor the performance shop or machine shop and how much was the charge just for that?

 

[Game Over]

What you need to do it get is diagnosed as to what exactly caused it, then take it from there.

 

[Fortium2012]

I am a little confused. Who rebuilt the motor the performance shop or machine shop and how much was the charge just for that?

Sorry, I knew it would get confusing... I'm trying not to name "names" for the moment. The machine shop built the engine & set the timing marks, and showed it to me before releasing the engine. An individual originally owned the engine, but no longer wanted to continue it and sold it to me while in progress at the shop. I paid remaining due on the tab of $2650. Then I paid the rest of labor and several other gaskets and parts needed to finish the build. Totalling around $3k. The other $7k is in the other bolt-ons and electronics, clutch, etc.

HKS 272 cams
HKS adj. cam gears
revised lifters
Crower springs/retainers
Ferrea valves
ARP Head studs
Cometic 4 layer HG
Wiseco 9:1 pistons
Eagle rods
Balance Shaft Delete kit
Compression was 210 across

 

[Fortium2012]

What you need to do it get is diagnosed as to what exactly caused it, then take it from there.

That's what I want to do. May take it to dealership as a neutral party, and get a receipt and print out of everything.

 

[xveganxcowboyx]

Just be sure to stay on this. My little brother had a 350 built for his blazer. It barely ran from the start and he got jerked around between the machine shop that built it and the shop that installed it. He got frustrated and gave up for a while. The waiting made it much harder to deal with and he pretty much got screwed.

If you get no cooperation have a lawyer (or well spoken friend) call whoever you think is responsible and say that you are begining steps toward a lawsuit. That might change their stance.

 

[BaddAssGst]

Make sure to take note of when the performance shop told you that you could drive it home. That almost makes it there fault although why would you drive a car that you know is something wrong? I'm not blaming you because the shop should have space for 1 tiny little Talon until the next business day but I would say you more then have a case, especially seeing how the Perf. shop didn't want you to mention there name.

 

[aadperformance]

Make sure you keep up on this everyday and keep a journal as well and track what everyone (the different shops) tell you. You want to record all info you can so that way there is as little chance as possible for you to get screwed.

 

[BobPell]

Sorry, I knew it would get confusing... I'm trying not to name "names" for the moment. The machine shop built the engine & set the timing marks, and showed it to me before releasing the engine. An individual originally owned the engine, but no longer wanted to continue it and sold it to me while in progress at the shop. I paid remaining due on the tab of $2650. Then I paid the rest of labor and several other gaskets and parts needed to finish the build. Totalling around $3k. The other $7k is in the other bolt-ons and electronics, clutch, etc.

It appears to me that both have to take some responsibility. The bolt on items can be
re-used. The claims as I see it are for 2650 & 3000. Expecting the machine shop to take all the heat if totally unfair in my opinion. Inasmuch as the machine shop seemingly is going to stand behind their work the perf. shop should also. Both claims are under the small claims limit in Virginia. For the perf. shop to ask you to lie to get them off the hook should tell you where their head is at. I would sue the one that is not cooperating with you.
If that turns out to be the perf. shop then you sue them and subpeona the machine shop at the same time to testify as to their roll. They do no want to spend days in court and it is probably cheaper for them just to fix it and move on. The time it takes to get all this resolved will in part be up to you and how you handle it. Good Luck!

 

[will90Eclipse]

I would fight those shops to the end. There the ones that built the motor not you, they should be responsable for not building the motor right. Try and keep track of everything they tell you so you can use it in court. Hopefully you won't get screwed. Good Luck

 

[Fortium2012]

I would fight those shops to the end. There the ones that built the motor not you, they should be responsable for not building the motor right. Try and keep track of everything they tell you so you can use it in court. Hopefully you won't get screwed. Good Luck

Well, as of yet, I don't think the Machine shop was at fault. When the engine was installed, I drove it around at low speeds (5-40mph). Following break-in procedures as given by them. Do lots of accel and decel, 3-4th gears @ 40mph 30-70% throttle to seat the rings. 4krpm's absolute tops, no higher, and not so much extended highway driving... around town, but not necessarily in traffic. I did that for a couple of miles. It ran a little rough, but went everywhere until I took it to the DSM Performance shop to get proper ignition timing.
Everyone I've talked to says it's NOT an install issue. The DSM shop must've adjusted something and not mentioned it or wrote it down on the receipt. It didn't even make it 1 mile from that shop.

 

[Fortium2012]

It appears to me that both have to take some responsibility. The bolt on items can be
re-used. The claims as I see it are for 2650 & 3000. Expecting the machine shop to take all the heat if totally unfair in my opinion. Inasmuch as the machine shop seemingly is going to stand behind their work the perf. shop should also. Both claims are under the small claims limit in Virginia. For the perf. shop to ask you to lie to get them off the hook should tell you where their head is at. I would sue the one that is not cooperating with you.
If that turns out to be the perf. shop then you sue them and subpeona the machine shop at the same time to testify as to their roll. They do no want to spend days in court and it is probably cheaper for them just to fix it and move on. The time it takes to get all this resolved will in part be up to you and how you handle it. Good Luck!

Nah, I won't have the machine shop take full responsibility if any. B'c I haven't touched the engine except to turn it and check plugs, and left it at that. I don't think the machine shop built it wrong, but I guess we'll all know when it goes to the dealer. I'll post an update, but I definitely plan on getting something out of this in the end!

 

[wolf20043]

From it happening to me twice, I wuld put my money on a blown rod. If the motor will not turn over, it sounds as if the shop did not tourqe the rod bolts properly and they came loose causing the rod to bind up the crank so it cannot turn. with the noises you described, I would almost feel positive in saying a rod broke or came loose, hence the performance shop would be at fault. If you can, I would pull the oil pan and take a look. Keep us up to date.
Mike

 

[drivemusicnow]

before you go to a dealer and pay a shit ton of money for them to take everything apart, contact a lawyer.

Hell, PAY the laywer for an hour of his time, and go through every detail. He'll know 15 times better than any of us what damages you can and cannot hold each shop liable for. He would also be able to tell you if taking it to the dealer to figure out exactly what is wrong is the best way to do it.

Keep track of everything, make sure you have records of every conversation with either company, and take notes, both with the two shops and the lawyer. It obviously needs to be taken care of, but don't screw yourself over by not going about getting things fixed in the proper manner.

By the way, could you PM me the name of the two shops?

 

[BobPell]

Nah, I won't have the machine shop take full responsibility if any.

dealer. I'll post an update, but I definitely plan on getting something out of this in the end!

Do as you like, however when you start saying things like "getting something out of this"
you are looking at this wrong. When the smoke clears all you will get is what you paid for and nothing more. Don't be expecting compensation for loss of use unless you can document rental car fees and/or loss of income. False expectations lead to disappointment, all you are owed is what you paid for. Good Luck!!!

 

[pure-specimen]

Why don't you ask both of the shops to give you their commercial liability errors and omissions policy, call and try to file a claim. of course you should have a lawyer, neither one of the companies is exclusively at fault. remember your engine is blown, this is common case of left hand not knowing what the right hand is doing. sounds like neglect, one shop should have informed the other on specs, markings, etc. at least this is the loop hole i would try to use. not that you really need a loop hole since the shops are at fault.

i would attack the insurance policies they have, those bastards.
hope this helps

 

[importboost]

a friend of mine had a shortblock built by slowboy racing. After 5.4 miles the motor blew. what happened was SBR set the bearing clearance between the rod bearings and the crank to small and the bearings fused themselves to the crank from lack of oil. he called the company and told them what happned and all they would do is help him pay for having it rebuilt. i dont think he threatened a lawsuit. so that may work for you. but from what i know, i dont think there is much you can do. good luck i hope your words with them pursuade them to think twice bout blowing you off.

 

[03bluevo]

Damn, I am sorry to hear that. I wish you the best of luck!!!

 

[Fortium2012]

Do as you like, however when you start saying things like "getting something out of this"
you are looking at this wrong. When the smoke clears all you will get is what you paid for and nothing more. Don't be expecting compensation for loss of use unless you can document rental car fees and/or loss of income. False expectations lead to disappointment, all you are owed is what you paid for. Good Luck!!!

Yes sir, I know exactly what you're saying. All I want is either a low-mileage stock engine installed in my vehicle in 100% running-reliable condition, or my money in return for the engine I paid, i.e.: $3k... nothing more. Asking for loss of income, etc. IMO makes me look like those over-dramatic people who aren't necessarily suing for the loss of what was lost, but just to get more money. I'm definitely being reasonable. I'm not even asking for labor of the engine install.... just the engine!
I have an appt. next week with a lawyer for free legal advice; as well as having my car taken to an entirely different shop to serve as a neutral party. No dealership, I thought that over as I've worked at a dealer before.
I'll post this coming week for updates.

 

[Fortium2012]

The neutral shop removed the head today and this is what was found.....
First, they tell me, "Someone advanced the intake cam 2.5 degrees. Typically, HKS adj. cam gears w/3 holding screws tend to slide due to lack of clamping force, but... if it would've slid then it would've slid ALL THE WAY or be Advance 20 degrees! It wouldn't have slid only 2.5 degrees". They strongly believe it must've been adjusted.
Order L to R, 3rd Cylinder had an intake valve (split in half and bent w/ indentations) sitting on top of the piston. That piston took a severe beating and has to be replaced. It seems every intake valve was tapping the pistons, but just enough to leave light shiny moon crests (not all over the place, in the same spot on each piston). He couldn't figure why all the others made contact.
Cylinder walls are in excellent condition and need no attention. Cams, Lifters, Springs, etc. in head are all perfect.

What they also said, "I bet my bottom dollar, the mechanic that worked on your car pulled the timing belt and re-installed it w/o correct timing marks or moved over a few teeth... started it, bent a valve then cut the car off. Knew he fu**ed up, adjusted your cam gear to where the valve stopped tapping and then rolled it out. So when you got back on the street that bent valve then broke, dropped on your piston and then it went to sh** after that".
Anyone possibly agree/disagree with this theory?

 

[Spyderman7]

You had race parts in a race car,thats what it's going to come down to.The only person thats going to pay is you.Everybody trys to sue these shops,have you ever looked at the back of the receipt

 

[BobPell]

The neutral shop removed the head today and this is what was found.....


What they also said, "I bet my bottom dollar, the mechanic that worked on your car pulled the timing belt and re-installed it w/o correct timing marks or moved over a few teeth... started it, bent a valve then cut the car off. Knew he fu**ed up, adjusted your cam gear to where the valve stopped tapping and then rolled it out. So when you got back on the street that bent valve then broke, dropped on your piston and then it went to sh** after that".
Anyone possibly agree/disagree with this theory?

Makes total sense to me. Answer the following:

1. After the first three miles (per your original post), How did you get your car to the DSM shop?
2. Did they charge you for their investigation?
3. If so do you have the receipt?
4. What was the last thing the perf shop said to you?
5. Will the DSM shop put the original diagnosis in writing?
6. What exactly does the rear of the receipt(s) say?
7. What is the price quote to get your motor straight?
8. How did the car get from the machine shop to the perf. shop? Or was just the engine sent over?
9. Did the perf shop do an examination of the newly rebuilt motor and note any defects?

Just curious - when the problem first surfaced in those 3 miles, why didn't you just go right back to the perf. shop?????