Front wheel drive limits

[99Mitsu]

I have been told (by a few people) that front wheel drive cars are only good up to about 220hp because they dont have enough traction (even with upgrades) to handle big horsepower numbers. i need to know for myself if this is true so i'm not beating a dead horse with mods that wont help me.

 

[lacroixdp]

According to that weight, that Accord's over 150lb less than your car. If that car is unmodified with the 4 cylinder and it's beating you at the drag strip, then something's wrong with your car or your driving technique. You were racing at the drag strip, right?

 

[tjbiker031]

im not giving up on DSM, i just need to know how to improve my traction because everyone out here is running mustangs (new and old) or an inline 6 cylinder like infiniti G-35 or V-tech hondas.

To be honest, our FWD car's weak point is the differential. Put in a LSD and most of your traction issues will go away. Some wider wheels and tires wont hurt but a great suspension will help out alot if you launch your car (along with poly engine mounts).

 

[mindset]

Might wanna let this guy know that.

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That thing is ridiculous. I think I remember seeing that thing too.

99mistu:
Whats so hard about this? The only problem with FWD is traction. Tires make all the difference...

 

[canada4g63]

im not saying its bad, im saying i you get more power with AWD or RWD. I mean how much do you have to do for a FWD to run 10s and 11s if its even possble. My eclipse is a FWD with an auto trans. I would like to convert to a manual and it doesnt sound that expensive, its the time and headache factor. Im seriously thinking about saving up a few thou and possibly getting and mid 90s skyline. Im not giving up on DSM, i just need to know how to improve traction and torque to run with the big dogs

Put a stall in your car with slicks, lsd you'll be fine. don't waste your time converting to a 5spd. if you want a 5spd sell your car and buy a 5spd. About $1500 in you car and you could be really close to 400whp. You don't get more power with awd or rwd there's more of a drivetrain loss, plus the weight. Mod for mod and a good driver the fwd will win everytime because of horsepower to weight ratio. IMO skyline are over rated. and want to run ten's or eleven's when you car doesn't run 13's yet, just take it a mod at a time. Listen to what people say what racing are you doing, highway or dragstrip?

 

[99Mitsu]

If you want to be fast I personally suggest just leaving it in D, you aren't gaining anything by shifting and you could certainly be hurting your run.

I would guess an Eclipse to weigh around 3200lbs (fwd 2g) but I'm not sure off the top of my head. Beyond that there is more to horsepower than just the peak of the curve. If you rode in my car with only about $2000 in mods you wouldn't believe that your car was even related to it and yes it is fwd, and yes I can hook up hard enough that your head will hit the seat. The setup on your car right now consists of important parts to upgrade but are not the most effective parts to start with.


Finally, talk about street racing on a public forum isn't illegal, but it is against the rules at this particular forum and the mods will edit/delete your posts or ban you. A lot of people with our interests have lost friends or known people who have died from reckless driving, I'm fortunate not to be one of them and largely I don't care about street racing talk but I would care about street racing in a residential area and definitely would prefer to hear about racing at a track. If I don't tell you about it someone else will and depending on how much you expound upon the issue and what someone's particular mood might be they may be less polite about it.

First off I apologize to anyone i may have offended by posting bout racing and for the sake of good measure i'll just say it was an "enclosed track"

secondly i have about $1000 in mods

Apexi 3'' exhaust with downpipe (no cat convert)
K & N cone air filter
NGK plugs n wires
Exteme dimensions "blits" fiberglass front bumper

i dont really know where do go for my next mods or set of mods, the whole "tech tree" on here kinda went to hell for me so im just doing it as i research it. Also i found out that I can no longer get a 16g turbo kit and I have to buy everything seperatly which bums me out ### I was looking into that for my next mod. they wany $700 for JUST the turbo

 

[canada4g63]

secondly i have about $1000 in mods

Apexi 3'' exhaust with downpipe (no cat convert)
K & N cone air filter
NGK plugs n wires
Exteme dimensions "blits" fiberglass front bumper

i dont really know where do go for my next mods or set of mods, the whole "tech tree" on here kinda went to hell for me so im just doing it as i research it. Also i found out that I can no longer get a 16g turbo kit and I have to buy everything seperatly which bums me out ### I was looking into that for my next mod. they wany $700 for JUST the turbo[/QUOTE]

What do you mean you can't get a 16g kit, look at the site sponsors they will sell them.

16G Install Kit for 95-99 turbo DSM
EXTREME PSI : Your #1 Source for In Stock Performance Parts - Extreme PSI 16G Install Kit : Mitsubishi Eclipse 95-99

 

[90rslaser]

in ft. collins, colorado, there is a 92-95 bodt style civic coupe thats in the 6's. it all really depends on how deep your pockets go. thats a limiting factor in almost everything now-a-days. ive seen many fwd cars make TONS of horsepower and hook like an awd

 

[the_mork]

Like I said before, you've upgraded some important things but not ones that are necessarily extremely effective at this point.

I would suggest buying a mechanical boost gauge and a manual boost controller next. The two are probably about a $60 investment and will do close to the amount of performance of all the other stuff that you've bought. After that you can buy a 16g or a 14b and the pieces needed for installation, a 14b will cost you about $100 for a good one and a 16g will cost about $570 for a new one. The 14b will be close in performance (with better spool) until you reach close to about 20psi. You will also need an upgraded upper intercooler pipe and bov, generally I recommend either a Dejon Tool or Road Race Engineering pipe with a 1g bov which should cost you around $120 for both.

The install kit for a 16g/14b is easy. You will need an oil feed line, gaskets, a J-pipe, an L pipe, a chainsaw file, and an M10x1.25x100 grade 11 bolt (grade 8 will work too but grade 11 is better). If that is more than you'd like to find on your own then extremepsi.com, forced performance, RRE, and many many other vendors have full kits but you'll pay more.

If you buy all of that your car will be quick and at around 15psi you'll be close to the limits of your stock fuel system.

<$200 in injectors and a tuning solution, since you have a 99 I would suggest getting a Tactrix 2.0 cable for around $120 which will allow you to flash your ecu, and a fuel pump will get you enough fuel and enough control over it to run about 22psi and literally scare unsuspecting passengers with the kick of acceleration. At that point you will be limited by your head studs and head gasket, another $180 and you'll be able to pretty much max out a 16g.

Does that help you figure out your mod path? By the way I would really just start at each stage of the mod path and just get everything listed in that stage before moving on, there is a reason that it is written in stages and in the order it is in.

 

[slo-rst-laser]

Did you check over your car for boost leaks or something in that area? My car stock walks a gsr swap in a Civic Hatch. You might have some mechanical problems, no need to beat your self up about it, it happens. Kiggly Racing is a fwd running 8's with no problem. Just like what everyone else has been saying your tires make a huge difference.

 

[the_mork]

Could also be the crappy 2g bov blowing open at high boost and killing the top end.

 

[mindset]

secondly i have about $1000 in mods

Apexi 3'' exhaust with downpipe (no cat convert)
K & N cone air filter
NGK plugs n wires
Exteme dimensions "blits" fiberglass front bumper

i dont really know where do go for my next mods or set of mods, the whole "tech tree" on here kinda went to hell for me so im just doing it as i research it. Also i found out that I can no longer get a 16g turbo kit and I have to buy everything seperatly which bums me out ### I was looking into that for my next mod. they wany $700 for JUST the turbo

More like only $700 in mods... NGK's are stock and a front bumper does what? Nothing.

But a boost guage and boost controller and swap out for a 14b or 16g.

 

[the_mork]

It is also a matter of finding deals and purchasing parts that work well but don't necessarily have the high price tag. I'm a big believer in budget performance with OEM quality, it is often both cheaper and more reliable to use parts off of other cars to meet your goals.

 

[daren_p]

Really depends on what you want to do with the car. The numbers in my profile are from my street tune last summer & this was when the car was fwd. My car has now been swapped to awd so I have owned them both. For me, now that I've had both I defently prefer awd but a fwd can defently be made fast as well. Just have to put alot more into traction mods. With drag radials, my car was a low 12 second car & if the car was still fwd, I'm sure I could have clipped off some 11 second passes this summer. My goal this year is still to see some 11 second passes but this time on my reg street tires & 18" wheels.

 

[mindset]

It is also a matter of finding deals and purchasing parts that work well but don't necessarily have the high price tag. I'm a big believer in budget performance with OEM quality, it is often both cheaper and more reliable to use parts off of other cars to meet your goals.

And deals go on all the time. SBR just had like 5 in a row. I think MAP had a couple too and so did Punishment I believe...

 

[99Mitsu]

Like I said before, you've upgraded some important things but not ones that are necessarily extremely effective at this point.

I would suggest buying a mechanical boost gauge and a manual boost controller next. The two are probably about a $60 investment and will do close to the amount of performance of all the other stuff that you've bought. After that you can buy a 16g or a 14b and the pieces needed for installation, a 14b will cost you about $100 for a good one and a 16g will cost about $570 for a new one. The 14b will be close in performance (with better spool) until you reach close to about 20psi. You will also need an upgraded upper intercooler pipe and bov, generally I recommend either a Dejon Tool or Road Race Engineering pipe with a 1g bov which should cost you around $120 for both.

The install kit for a 16g/14b is easy. You will need an oil feed line, gaskets, a J-pipe, an L pipe, a chainsaw file, and an M10x1.25x100 grade 11 bolt (grade 8 will work too but grade 11 is better). If that is more than you'd like to find on your own then extremepsi.com, forced performance, RRE, and many many other vendors have full kits but you'll pay more.

If you buy all of that your car will be quick and at around 15psi you'll be close to the limits of your stock fuel system.

<$200 in injectors and a tuning solution, since you have a 99 I would suggest getting a Tactrix 2.0 cable for around $120 which will allow you to flash your ecu, and a fuel pump will get you enough fuel and enough control over it to run about 22psi and literally scare unsuspecting passengers with the kick of acceleration. At that point you will be limited by your head studs and head gasket, another $180 and you'll be able to pretty much max out a 16g.

Does that help you figure out your mod path? By the way I would really just start at each stage of the mod path and just get everything listed in that stage before moving on, there is a reason that it is written in stages and in the order it is in.

i was about to buy a boost controler a few weeks ago but relized that it would do much good with my stock BOV that cant handle much past stock boost. The place I get my aftermarkets from (top speed auto sport) has HKS SSQV for $310 /w tax, they were also the ones that said turbo kits are dicontinued.

Personally I like to go to an actual store to buy parts because there so no "lost in shipping" and credit card idenity theft, but it looks like im going to have to start online shopping for the good stuff.

Lastly I need to know how difficult it is to put a boost controller on myself. I will buy one after i get a BOV but its just good to know what im getting myself into/

 

[rEclipserGST]

i was about to buy a boost controler a few weeks ago but relized that it would do much good with my stock BOV that cant handle much past stock boost. The place I get my aftermarkets from (top speed auto sport) has HKS SSQV for $310 /w tax, they were also the ones that said turbo kits are dicontinued.

Personally I like to go to an actual store to buy parts because there so no "lost in shipping" and credit card idenity theft, but it looks like im going to have to start online shopping for the good stuff.

Lastly I need to know how difficult it is to put a boost controller on myself. I will buy one after i get a BOV but its just good to know what im getting myself into/

With $1000 I could have a beastly car. Budget is everything, Brand name is not. Shop around, plenty will tell you that ebay has just about everything you need. Not to mention the classifieds here will have plenty of parts at a bargain. Slighty used and primed and ready to abuse.

$350 for a 16g
$200 for injectors
$100 for datalogger
$35 for a 1g bov
$150 for an ebay exhaust
$50 for a 190 walbro lph fuel pump
$25 manual boost controller
$150 for SAFC


Theres your $1000 in mods that will do BIG things.

 

[habitatguy187]

i was about to buy a boost controler a few weeks ago but relized that it would do much good with my stock BOV that cant handle much past stock boost. The place I get my aftermarkets from (top speed auto sport) has HKS SSQV for $310 /w tax, they were also the ones that said turbo kits are dicontinued.

Lastly I need to know how difficult it is to put a boost controller on myself. I will buy one after i get a BOV but its just good to know what im getting myself into/

$310 WTF ??? Buy a 1g bov for $30 shipped, buy a manual boost controller off ebay for $20 shipped, put it on in 5 minutes, and LEARN THIS WEBSITE

 

[habitatguy187]

$350 for a 16g
$200 for injectors
$100 for datalogger
$35 for a 1g bov
$150 for an ebay exhaust
$50 for a 190 walbro lph fuel pump
$25 manual boost controller

Everything looks good besides buying injectors without having anything to tune them.

 

[the_mork]

i was about to buy a boost controler a few weeks ago but relized that it would do much good with my stock BOV that cant handle much past stock boost. The place I get my aftermarkets from (top speed auto sport) has HKS SSQV for $310 /w tax, they were also the ones that said turbo kits are dicontinued.

Personally I like to go to an actual store to buy parts because there so no "lost in shipping" and credit card idenity theft, but it looks like im going to have to start online shopping for the good stuff.

Lastly I need to know how difficult it is to put a boost controller on myself. I will buy one after i get a BOV but its just good to know what im getting myself into/

A genuine SSQV can be bought for about $100 used but they are still overpriced, a 1g bov is everything you need. I would stop going to Top Speed Auto Sport.

 

[Bender]

The stupidity of this thread amazes me.

Kevin is running an automatic fwd. He runs 8.5 @ 162 with a 1.3 60' time.

I have awd and it is more of a handicap than an advantage. I launch at 25 psi, and get wheel spin like crazy.. even with a welded differential. It is a lot easier to heat up the tires in a fwd compared to an awd.

Also, about the manual/automatic debate... check out Automatic DSM'S

 

[99Mitsu]

i was gonna put an FMIC on when i upgrade my turbo, BUT i was told that i would have to go with long route piping because short route has to be custom modded and i know FMIC only works on DSM /w short route. They also tried to run me $300 for intercooler and another $250 for long route piping. I think Top Speed is trying to make me bankrupt

 

[habitatguy187]

i was gonna put an FMIC on when i upgrade my turbo, BUT i was told that i would have to go with long route piping because short route has to be custom modded and i know FMIC only works on DSM /w short route. They also tried to run me $300 for intercooler and another $250 for long route piping. I think Top Speed is trying to make me bankrupt

Lots of people have short routes for DSM's, also you can get a cheap cxracing core from ebay and the piping kit and make your own setup. Lot's of people do it nowadays and it's what I will be doing when that time comes. Total cost usually around $220ish including all shipping.

 

[99Mitsu]

Lots of people have short routes for DSM's, also you can get a cheap cxracing core from ebay and the piping kit and make your own setup. Lot's of people do it nowadays and it's what I will be doing when that time comes. Total cost usually around $220ish including all shipping.

that doesnt sound to bad but is making my own piping route diffucult? if I get pre-bent pipes how am i supposed to make my own route?

 

[habitatguy187]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/tur...out-my-short-route.html?highlight=short-route