From USDM to JDM, the problems begin.

[Auladan]

... And I don't know where to start.

Brief history. My car is a 1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD, and the motor fried over a year and four months ago when the timing belt, having somehow lost several dozen teeth, slipped. A year later, around middle-January, I got a JDM engine from www.mitsuparts.net, for lack of ability to get anything else, and it's been several months of installation, since this is my first motor swap, and my dad can only work on it on his weekends (days off).

So, as it is: The JDM motor is in (I really can't tell you the year on it, but compression had 150+ across the board), and she starts. It wasn't a direct bolt in, since I had to swap out some of the parts with my old USDM, such as the Throttle Body. I found out that my JDM intake is a Cyclone (not happy with that), and my motor didn't come with the white charcoal box I keep hearing about, that you need for the custom vacuum setup to get the thing working right.

However, like I said, it starts.

The problems:

- Car won't idle. It sputters and dies unless I hold just a hair on the gas.

- Engine sounds... differerent than my USDM. I don't know if it's meant to, or what. It's a higher pitch, and just doesn't sound right.

- Turbo won't spool, from what I can tell. Is it supposed to in neutral? I've accellerate the car several times, but I heard no blow-off, and I don't recall hearing the Turbo. This has me worried.

- None of the guages work. This one really has me confused. Temperature, RPM's, Oil Pressure, and perhaps even the Tachometer, but I can't tell since my car's still on jacks. The boost guage seems to be working; when I rev the engine the needle rises to just around 0.

I did a custom vacuum setup where-by eliminating emissions, and the check-engine light doesn't, to my surprise, come on. However, I'm seriously considering taking the vacuum back to stock to see if that helps anything.

I've already swapped out the oil sending unit, and that didn't fix the Oil Pressure guage, but by other means we've determined that there is, of course, oil pressure.

Could I get some serious help here? We really don't have the money to take this thing to shop, but because of it I've been stuck at home for over a year now, missing out on collage and work (I live too far for public transportation, yadda yadda). I'm dieing to get this thing running.

(Edit: I don't know if this will help narrow the search, but there is a rectangular plug that comes out of the wiring harness right near the Coil Pack, and fits in to a same-shaped transistor box of sorts. This box doesn't plug in to anything else, and is simply bolted on to the Intake Manifold. However, when we fiddled with that by moving it and pinching it and what not, I completely lost spark to my spark plugs. Playing a little more with it, we got spark back, and then we even strengthened the idle by squeezing the rubber insulater right behind the plug. Any ideas?)

 

[Lordpaxin]

your car shouldnt spool in nuertral
check your throttle cable.

what parts did you swap from your usdm.
check your isc

150 across the board is decent numbners

 

[Auladan]

Alright, that's great news (about the spooling). And I plan on checking the throttle cable, I think it might be a little loose.

From what I can remember, I swapped the Throttle Body and Coil Pack, because the JDM coil pack wasn't compatible with my wiring harness (same deal with the throttle body). Everything else should be JDM. The engine was a Longblock, so the turbo, exhaust mannie, all that is JDM. It's a 6-bolt, and I'm using my USDM transmission and so forth.

Any idea on why my guages aren't working? Electrical problem, perhaps?

 

[Lordpaxin]

which guages arent working.

i have never gotten the stock oil pressure guage to work with any of my jdm swaps.

is your tach working?
you will definatly have problems with the cyclone intake. if you dont actuate it atall.
either rip it out and throw on your usdm (recommended) all youll have is a few hours and a new gasket (7$)

your base timing is going to be off some.
because you swapped the cas.

um. i dunno whatelse. im late, and i just got fuxxored!!!!

 

[Auladan]

Guages that don't work: Oil Pressure, RPM, and Temperature. Not sure on the Tachometer yet, because I havn't had the chance to drive it yet. I lost the bolts for the drive shaft's hanger baring, and I'm having trouble replacing them.

But, I'm seriously considering swapping the Intake Manifolds. This bloody Cyclone is just a pain.

 

[Lordpaxin]

Did you replace the coil pack?
you must swap the POWER TRANSISTER

the black flat box on the back of the manifold. thats your RPM and your timing shit
oil pressure? good luck, ive never gotten it to work on my cars.

temp, theres a slight difference in connectros, but they all line up, make sure you dont have em swapped.

 

[SwimShady]

i just got done swappin a nt motor into my 93 eclipse. the throttle body was different as you said...my coil packs were the same but i also had to change my thermostat housing as it was WAY different. i doubt that has anything to do with your problem but thought id give my 2 cents . anyways...take off that stupid cyclone manifold and put on yours off ur original engine, that might help too?? not sure not too familiar with them. good luck, itll be worth it when its done i love my jdm

 

[Auladan]

Alright, thanks guys. I think that's what I'm gonna do (swap intake manifolds)

Dad's against it 'cause it'll take a while, but I think I'll just do it this week while he's at work. I'm pretty sure that will solve alotta problems.

Now, the transistor box you're talking about, I'm using the one off my USDM motor, 'cause the JDM one wasn't the right size/shape, but I'll look in to replacing it anyway, 'cause it might just be busted.

Thanks again.

 

[Auladan]

Okay, I may keep with the cyclone on second thought. I got in contact with the people who sold me my engine, and they said they'd try and get me that white JDM chorcoal canister (I really don't know what it is).

I remember reading a while back about a vacuum setup to get the Cyclone to work on USDM cars, using the white charcoal canister and several other things, like a BCS. Could someone help me find that thread, or could someone just post here with the knowhow?

I tried searching, but I just can't find it.

 

[Lordpaxin]

you need 2 things to make it work.

the Butterfly Actuator solenoid.
and the White vacuum tank.

look at this pic, it shows the jdm vac hookup.

the solenoid location on the galant was mounted on the air can.

I made this diagram so give me props

 

[Lordpaxin]

hers a pic of the white tank

 

[FASTSPOOLINGST]

i think lordpaxin told me that the CAS must be changed for the USDM also, or at least the connectors must be swapped and the wires spliced to work on the jdm for it to work.
PM Lordpaxin on it, he did this swap twice i think. He bought a whole front clip too so he can help you out, he gave me a lot of info on this swap.

I think he also said that the water neck assy must be swapped. That would be your water temp guage problem probably.

 

[Auladan]

AUUGH! I punch myself in the face!

I found it. I guess my engine did come with that little vacuum box, and I just didn't notice it. I thought it was bigger, but when browsing through some 'before-installation' pictures, I noticed a small cylindrical doowhat inbetween the intake mannifold and the metal vacuum line devider, for lack of a better term. I found the right hose, and I should have this sucker runnin' proper in a few days.

Paxin (props j0), will the setup in your diagram work with a USDM computer? Also, I've tried VFaq, and guessing, but what's the CAS? I'm sure I know what it is, just not the abbreviation.

 

[1fast97gsx]

double check the timing ... that could cause it to die unless you have your foot on the throttle...

 

[Auladan]

Cam Angle Sensor.

Right.

Anyway, I hosed up the Butterfly Actuator and Vacuum canister in to the mix, and started her up. The engine ran even worse; sputtered horribly and died, and when the accelerater was depressed, nothing responded. So, I disconnected the actuator and vacuum canister, and left the hoses (on the solenoid end) disconnected, and tried again. The engine fired up and ran (still poorly, but at least it ran, and at a rather steady pace with the gas depressed a hair).

So, I have the fuel pressure solenoid hooked up properly, and I can (hopefully) leave that alone.

Now, the problem may be on my end, because I can't make out which solenoid is which and I could be using the wrong one. So, how do I tell? And, will I have to swap out the CAS for the butterfly actuator/Vacuum canister to work right? I'm still using the JDM CAS.

Sorry if this is all jumbled, I'll be more specific if this doesn't make sense.

(edited to make more sense)

 

[Lordpaxin]

if the jdm cas plugged in leave it.
i forgot you had a 90 model.

no, the setup will no work with usdm ecu, my diagram shows the vacuum lines with the ECU controlling the cyclone. usdm does not have cyclone information in the computer.

under the tech article section under intake a fellow dsmer has info on a NON jdm ecu setup. give that a read.

Which Throttle body are you using?
is it possible you have ignition / fuel problems?

describe BAD running.

while its running try pulling off one plug wire at a time. each one should make the engine change when pulled, if you find on that doesnt affect engine idle then thats the problem area.

bad injector, plug, ect. some memeber would complain about that, but its a quik way to eliminate a few things.

mabye make a list of EVerything you did.

 

[Auladan]

Alright, that's the write-up I saw a while ago, but forgot to bookmark it. Thanks man.

What I've done so far (that I can remember):

Started out with a 90 TSi motor. Swapped it out for a 91+ (can tell from electrical connectors and throttle body, and so forth) JDM 1G motor.

I swapped out throttle bodies, so now I'm using my 90 USDM. I have the four vacuum nipples plugged (old school, vacuum hoses and nails).

Rewired the JDM coil back, then ordered a 90 coil. Both work the same.

Got rid of emissions vacuuming. I have the Fuel Pressure Solenoid hosed up, as well as the BCS/Air Can/Turbo. Check engine light, surprisingly, doesn't come on when the engine is running.

I swapped out the JDM wiring harness for my 90 USDM, because the JDM was cut, and, of course, wouldn't work (at least without extensive work or what not, I'm not an electrician). Same with the throttle cable.

Swapped the Power Transistor Box that is bolted on to the Intake Mannifold. The JDM didn't fit the USDM connector. I think I have a broken wire or somesuch inside that connecter, because when playing with it, I'll either lose spark completely, or get better idle. Definately a problem area.

Swapped the upper radiator (thermostat housing) neck for my USDM.

Also swapped out the Oil Sending Unit, 'cause I thought the JDM one might be broken. No change (i.e. oil pressure guage still not functioning).

Swapped the O2 sensor (now using my 90 USDM).

Have NOT swapped the CAS (cam angle sensor), but I plan too this weekend.

And that's all that I can remember. As well, just out of curiosity, after hooking and wiring up everything, I found that there is a long, thin, insulated wire that would fit on to a single, flat, rectangular connecter, but I just can't find where it would go. It's hanging right near my alternator. I have two, but one is currently attached to a pin on the alternator, the other is just dangling there. My alternater is charging. Got any idea about that?

If I think of more, I'll let you know.

Now, about the poor running. I'll do my best here.

The engine only takes a few turns to fire up, but will usually almost immediately die unless I feed it some gas (which I'm terribly low on now, gotta remind myself to fill 'er up soon). With a hair on the pedal, she'll run steady, but the pitch seems higher than on my USDM motor, and I think I hear a very rapid ticking of sorts, which isn't noticeable. MIGHT be my imagination. I'm not used to hearing my car run without the hood on (well, now I am, but not enough to compare between then and now). When I depress the gas, it revs rather smoothly, but there is definate lag between when I hit the gas, and the engine responds. Like a huge loss of power in the middle-low end. I'm aiming toward the Cyclone, but I don't know.

Hope this helps narrow the field.

 

[Lordpaxin]

I have the Fuel Pressure Solenoid hosed up, as well as the BCS/Air Can/Turbo

does this mean they are not hooke dup?



the dangling wire hooks to your power steering pump.
that power transister is definatly what i would concentrate on.

 

[Auladan]

No, I meant that they are hooked up.

Power steering eh? I'll give that a look.

I'm goin' out for the parts necessary for Ho Chi Minn's Cyclone Vacuum Setup today, so I'll be sure to let everyone know if I can get this thing working, and what I did.

Many thanks for you help!

 

[Auladan]

Update:

Swapped the JDM CAS out and put the USDM CAS in its place. Started it up, and I think it ran a little better. Then we started to play with the connecter that goes in to the Transistor Box, and I got perfect idle. Then lost complete spark. Then inbetween. Then perfect idle again.

So, right now, that's my focus. I'm going to try to find a 1990 transistor box at a junkyard and swap 'em out to see if that has any effect. I'm hoping it will, and will get my guages to work again. If that doesn't help, it's gotta be a problem in the connector itself, like a broken wire or somesuch.

I'm getting all the parts I need for the Cyclone Butterfly Vacuum setup tomarrow morning, and if that works, I should have a driveable DSM with 35k miles on the engine.

All I need now are the bloody hanger nuts for the drive shaft hanger baring. Can't believe I lost those.