1G Flywheel thickness

[pauleyman]

So with the different bores do you really think it would make that much of a difference?

its simple geometey. Wouldnt take much to calculate the volume difference and translate that to a horizontal travel distance.

I also saw you say you wont use shim. Well if you resurface enough times wont that get you far enough away that even with everything else new you would need to shim to get back where it needs to be? Just curious.

i probably need to edit that. I might shim but i made the statement because in my opinion if you need to shim you've probably machined too much and need to replace the flywheel. A new flywheel, the friction surface is above the space in between the pads. Most flywheels I see have been machined below if not way below the surface betqeen the pads

I did had my pedal assembly apart and from what i could see and feel it did not look wore out so i put it back together and tightened it back down. Im just at my ends because i always had threads to adjust with. Now for some reason i dont. Maybe something is bad or wore and im just not catching it thinking its fine

You just visually inspected? Thats not enough. You jave to grab the parts and try to move them relative to one another. If they move its bad.

 

[1990dsmkid]

its simple geometey. Wouldnt take much to calculate the volume difference and translate that to a horizontal travel distance.

i probably need to edit that. I might shim but i made the statement because in my opinion if you need to shim you've probably machined too much and need to replace the flywheel. A new flywheel, the friction surface is above the space in between the pads. Most flywheels I see have been machined below if not way below the surface betqeen the pads

You just visually inspected? Thats not enough. You jave to grab the parts and try to move them relative to one another. If they move its bad.

I did move the parts. I really didnt notice anything. Still seemed tight to me. I could be wrong. I shouldnt have just welded it but i was in a rush.

 

[pauleyman]

I did move the parts. I really didnt notice anything. Still seemed tight to me. I could be wrong. I shouldnt have just welded it but i was in a rush.

I usually grab the pedal itself and my other hand the clevis lever
The one with the odd shaped hole. If these two parts move relative to each other even a little bit thats a problem. A small bit of angular movement translates to quite a bit more on the other end where the clevis bolts to the master rod. Again the geometry shows just a few degrees can translate to 1/4 even 1/2" or more of tangential movement on the other side.

 

[1990dsmkid]

I usually grab the pedal itself and my other hand the clevis lever
The one with the odd shaped hole. If these two parts move relative to each other even a little bit thats a problem. A small bit of angular movement translates to quite a bit more on the other end where the clevis bolts to the master rod. Again the geometry shows just a few degrees can translate to 1/4 even 1/2" or more of tangential movement on the other side.

Ill have to give this a try and see what it does

 

[Mech Addict]

I agree completely with Pauleyman. I found I can grab my pedal and move it toward the driver almost an inch. When I push down on to disengage the clutch, it returns to "normal". So nearly an inch of "slop" but it doesn't wiggle when mounted in the car. When I removed the entire pedal assembly and purchased a fresh shaft lever (the short one that the clevis goes through), I found just a hint of play. Really nothing that I would have thought would be of consequence. It was the double-d rod end that was just shiny-clearanced enough to move just a little. Why they didn't use a hex or spline at this connection, well..., we'd all like to know.
I had already purchased new oem (plastic) bushings for the pedal shaft (even though the old ones seemed fine with 97k mi). Didn't want to wait for bronze and take to a welder. This is why I went with the 2g rod swap. It corrects the issue by compensating for that tiny bit of slack. I don't worry that the pedal shaft flats are going to quickly wear to a circle or anything, and if I start running out of threads on the 2g rod, well, then it will be time to weld.

 

[pauleyman]

I agree completely with Pauleyman. I found I can grab my pedal and move it toward the driver almost an inch. When I push down on to disengage the clutch, it returns to "normal". So nearly an inch of "slop" but it doesn't wiggle when mounted in the car. When I removed the entire pedal assembly and purchased a fresh shaft lever (the short one that the clevis goes through), I found just a hint of play. Really nothing that I would have thought would be of consequence. It was the double-d rod end that was just shiny-clearanced enough to move just a little. Why they didn't use a hex or spline at this connection, well..., we'd all like to know.
I had already purchased new oem (plastic) bushings for the pedal shaft (even though the old ones seemed fine with 97k mi). Didn't want to wait for bronze and take to a welder. This is why I went with the 2g rod swap. It corrects the issue by compensating for that tiny bit of slack. I don't worry that the pedal shaft flats are going to quickly wear to a circle or anything, and if I start running out of threads on the 2g rod, well, then it will be time to weld.

As long as you dont bottom out the master or over adjust this is a good idea. I did the same thing a long time ago by welding a nut onto the clevis bracket. On hindsight it was kind of a pain because even being careful and threading a rod through the bracket and nut the threads didnt completely align and i had to run a tap through. Might be better to weld a piece of scrap with a hole and then tap it after the weld. Anyway it worked until i fixed it permanently.

 

[XC92]

I agree completely with Pauleyman. I found I can grab my pedal and move it toward the driver almost an inch. When I push down on to disengage the clutch, it returns to "normal". So nearly an inch of "slop" but it doesn't wiggle when mounted in the car. When I removed the entire pedal assembly and purchased a fresh shaft lever (the short one that the clevis goes through), I found just a hint of play. Really nothing that I would have thought would be of consequence. It was the double-d rod end that was just shiny-clearanced enough to move just a little. Why they didn't use a hex or spline at this connection, well..., we'd all like to know.
I had already purchased new oem (plastic) bushings for the pedal shaft (even though the old ones seemed fine with 97k mi). Didn't want to wait for bronze and take to a welder. This is why I went with the 2g rod swap. It corrects the issue by compensating for that tiny bit of slack. I don't worry that the pedal shaft flats are going to quickly wear to a circle or anything, and if I start running out of threads on the 2g rod, well, then it will be time to weld.

More or less my situation until I temporarily fixed it by manually pushing the pedal as far as it would go before the shaft started moving, then tightened the bolt that connects the shaft to the lever. It's held up for nearly a year and hundreds of miles (only reason I haven't driven more on it was because I didn't want to put too many miles on it until I rebuilt the trans, which then took most of the summer).

But come spring I'm taking the whole assembly out to see what's going on and needs to be fixed properly, if the MC needs to be rebuilt or replaced, anything else going on down there, etc. I'm actually surprised that my "fix" has held up so far, but it's not a real solution, of course.

I was though recently pleasantly surprised to find that cruise control is still working fine. Before the car had sat for several years it hadn't worked, and I thought it was just one of those parts that die eventually. But it turned out that it was just the switch that prevents the car from starting without first pressing down on the clutch pedal, to avoid sudden lurching if it's in gear.

Someone, not me, thus almost certainly a mechanic, years ago, had disconnected it for who knows what reason. Turns out that this switch--or another one at the other end of the pedal travel that had also been disconnected--enables the cruise control. I know that some people delete their cruise, but I like it for long highway drives.

Anyway, it's endless fixes with these cars. Fix on thing and another gremlin turns up.

 

[Mech Addict]

The cruise only depends on the pedal stop switch, which must make contact when the pedal is up. The one on the floor is for start, though you can remove it completely and the car starts fine. My pedal was missing the small rubber bumper that presses the cruise one. Curiously, the button of the switch fits right through the hole in the pedal boss that holds the rubber. Put the rubber back, and it came to life. A miss-adjustment would also likely cause cruise n/f.

 

[1990dsmkid]

Instead of new thread ill just post it in here. I believe i know the answer but is this enough play that i need to pull pedal assembly out again and would cause shifting issues?

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[XC92]

Instead of new thread ill just post it in here. I believe i know the answer but is this enough play that i need to pull pedal assembly out again and would cause shifting issues?

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Are you actually having shifting issues? I am, with moderate grinding when shifting after the car's warmed up, usually going into 1st from a standstill. So I'm going to pull the entire pedal and brake assembly and see what's going on, and fix it.

I have a MC rebuild kit and all the replacement bushings and washers, along with a new clutch pedal lever with the infamous D hole, and a brass bushing for welding the pedal to it. I got them a few years ago and haven't gotten around to doing this.

I've already replaced the SC & some of the lines & hoses with a braided SS one, and the clutch, PP & TB, and had the flywheel resurfaced, so all the work that remains to be done is on the pedal assembly & MC end. I want minimal play and no smooth shifting.

 

[1990dsmkid]

Yes I have shifting issues. Some of it might be related to what i posted but I think most is just from an old worn transmission. I plan on getting trans rebuilt, check my flywheel and clutch, I have all the bushings ordered and waiting for them but its not looking good on them, and Ill replace the fork, pivot ball, and throw out bearing.

Clutch pedal will be pulled and welded too. Im not looking to have anymore issues

 

[XC92]

Yes I have shifting issues. Some of it might be related to what i posted but I think most is just from an old worn transmission. I plan on getting trans rebuilt, check my flywheel and clutch, I have all the bushings ordered and waiting for them but its not looking good on them, and Ill replace the fork, pivot ball, and throw out bearing.

Clutch pedal will be pulled and welded too. Im not looking to have anymore issues

What kinds of issues?

 

[1990dsmkid]

Sometimes grinding into gears. Sometimes hard to get into gears. I have oem master cylinder its old but not leaking. Ss braided line. I believe aftermarket slave cylinder fairly new and not leaking. I put new bushing in clutch pedal assembly thinking that would be enough. I even shimmed pivot ball and still have some issues.

So im going to get it rebuilt and replace some more parts and fix some others and hope no more problems

 

[XC92]

Sometimes grinding into gears. Sometimes hard to get into gears. I have oem master cylinder its old but not leaking. Ss braided line. I believe aftermarket slave cylinder fairly new and not leaking. I put new bushing in clutch pedal assembly thinking that would be enough. I even shimmed pivot ball and still have some issues.

So im going to get it rebuilt and replace some more parts and fix some others and hope no more problems

Not sure if we have the same exact issues, but a few years ago the trans kept popping out of 1st. I took it apart and it was because the 1st/2nd hub/sleeve dog teeth had gotten worn out, likely due to a clutch that wouldn't fully disengage, gradually wearing down the teeth. It had been grinding gears for several years prior to that.

The 1st/2nd fork and synchros were also worn so I replaced all of these. The actual gears were fine, but there was no reason for them not to be. While I was at it I also replace most bearings and some other synchros and the 3rd/4th fork, and a few other parts.

The trans has been fine since, no popping out of 1st, relatively smooth shifts, etc. But it's still grinding getting into 1st which I'm pretty sure is due to pedal slop. So I'll remove the entire assembly and fix the slop and rebuild the MC.

I think this is a fairly common issue with 1G manual DSMs. Sounds like you do have to get your trans rebuild, which you can do yourself if you're up to it and save some money, no special tools needed that you can't rent for free at Autozone. But I can see why you would prefer a pro to do it. And, like me you'll have to address the slop issue. But sounds like you have it all covered. Good luck and let us know how it worked out. I'll do that too.

 

[miliman13]

I know this is a 1g mostly thing.
But i recently got my car running after 7 yrs. and i remember the trans always feeling and shifting like new, i noticed i would grind every gear even at idle, i adjusted the rod by loosening the 12mm nut and rotating the rod, the trans no longer grinds at all.
I don't know if this is adjustable in the 1g and i apologize if its unrelated.

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But I don't doubt its already caused some damaged if it's been happening for a while.

 

[1990dsmkid]

I know this is a 1g mostly thing.
But i recently got my car running after 7 yrs. and i remember the trans always feeling and shifting like new, i noticed i would grind every gear even at idle, i adjusted the rod by loosening the 12mm nut and rotating the rod, the trans no longer grinds at all.
I don't know if this is adjustable in the 1g and i apologize if its unrelated.

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But I don't doubt its already caused some damaged if it's been happening for a while.

1gs adjust the same way. Mine is basically all the way adjusted out and i still have problems. Did the drag test and got to about 5500 before it started to creep forward so that is also a leading issue. Probably due to pedal slop. I just need to get some time and park the car and pull the trans out to send away

 

[XC92]

1gs adjust the same way. Mine is basically all the way adjusted out and i still have problems. Did the drag test and got to about 5500 before it started to creep forward so that is also a leading issue. Probably due to pedal slop. I just need to get some time and park the car and pull the trans out to send away

Yeah, letting the rod all the way out always struck me as a stopgap to buy you time and that the real solution was to either replace or rebuild the MC or SC, replace the fluid hose, replace and bleed the fluid, or address pedal slop. It's sort of like how replacing the SC pushrod with a longer one is a stopgap, not a real solution.

I've already replaced nearly everything downstream of the MC so now I'm going to address everything upstream of it, including the MC itself. I'm getting tired of having to very gingerly shift into first and slowly wearing down teeth I replaced just a few years ago. I can do that again if I have to and it's not THAT expensive, but I'd rather avoid having to do that.

Good call on addressing both the trans and clutch issues together. They're interrelated.

 

[1990dsmkid]

So I pulled the assembly out while I had trans getting rebuilt. I got the trans back. Upon looking over assembly i did the bushings and welded it. Now here it is installed with no trans yet. The rod is adjusted almost completely out and pedal is up at the stop. If i move the rod in the pedal gets closer to the floor. Im a missing something? I dont want to ruin new trans. Going to check flywheel step and got new pivot ball, fork, tob and clip. Master is an old oem and im putting on a new aftermarket(luk) slave cylinder. Have ss braided line. Im hoping flywheel step is good and when i put new trans in the fork sits in the window correctly. So we shall see. Probably be like 2 weeks.

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[19Eclipse90]

I know this is an old thread and we’ve all done things certain ways for years but here’s an interesting TSB regarding flywheel machining.

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Still need to know the original thickness to know when that maximum has been reached but it’s a good reference anytime the flywheel may need machining.

 

[1990dsmkid]

This flywheel is fairly new and still looks good. Im just worried about everything.

 

[1990dsmkid]

Finally got this done. Still have the rod sitting where it was with few threads left. I shimmed the pivot ball. As new slave cylinder(luk). Shifter base is rebuilt. Pedal assembly has brass bushings and welded. Rebuilt trans. Took it for first drive and it still has issues. Also still has drag. Im at a loss and very pissed. Ive never had this much trouble before. Also doesnt like to shift into gears just sitting with engine off. I switch the selector arm since its 91+ plus while using 90 components. Had issues getting the arm back on. Hopefully didnt mess something up trying to beat pin back in. I dont know why I dont have enough travel and has drag. Someone help me please