1G Flywheel thickness

[Mech Addict]

Yes, sounds familiar. My synchros in 1-2 were bad, and I had to dead-stop for 1st, which was a headache in traffic. These cars aren’t great at lugging starts in 2nd.
The clutch adjustment is not exactly related to the internal issues on the trans, though shifting is worse if not fully releasing. Poor adjustment would be felt in all gears, I presume. I think the clutch drag test only requires 5k rpm, btw.

I still think you might have a pedal issue, though. Running out of threads is the classic symptom.

 

[AWD-Tony]

What is the position of the clutch fork in the window? Dead center?

Drag test is at 7k rpm’s.

 

[XC92]

It's important to note that the existence of one issue does not mean that other issues are not also present. These problems are often compound, especially in such older cars not known to have the greatest clutch & trans to begin with.

And often one issue, if left unfixed, leads to other issues. I know that in my case a sloppy clutch pedal almost certainly wore out my clutch disc prematurely due to incomplete disengagement, and worse, likely caused grinding that wore out the 1-2 hub/sleeve teeth as well as the 1 & 2 synchros, requiring a complete rebuild.

I've since fixed these likely cascading issues as well as temporarily fixed the likely primary issue, but once it gets warm outside again I'm going to remove the whole pedal assembly and permanently fix this issue. I've already got all the parts, just need to wait out winter as I have no heated or indoor place to work on the car. Thankfully the temporary fix is still holding up (basically just tightening the pedal shaft nut).

Often a new slave and/or master cylinder are required, or at least rebuilds. I also replaced my slave, and will try to rebuild the master when I work on the pedal issue. I also replaced the lower hose and hard line with a SS line, along with all the cable end bushings on both ends, some shifter bushings. And of course the clutch, PP, TOB, fork, fulcrum & clip. Might as well do the whole thing I figured.

 

[AWD-Tony]

Often a new slave and/or master cylinder are required, or at least rebuilds.

If it’s not leaking or just want new parts, there is absolutely no reason to change the slave or master. A new master or slave will not push more fluid than an older working unit. It’s a sealed hydraulic system.

 

[XC92]

If it’s not leaking or just want new parts, there is absolutely no reason to change the slave or master. A new master or slave will not push more fluid than an older working unit.

I said often, not always or necessarily. On a 30 year old platform where neither has ever been replaced, I'm guessing it's needed more often than not.

 

[AWD-Tony]

I said often, not always or necessarily. On a 30 year old platform where neither has ever been replaced, I'm guessing it's needed more often than not.

Doesn’t make sense to replace it if it’s functioning and not leaking. Again, it’s a sealed system. Nothing gets worn that you have to replace it unless it’s obviously the seals.

 

[XC92]

It's sealed until it's not sealed. Both have rubber parts that eventually degrade to the point where they have to be rebuilt or replaced. My slave was no longer sealing and the master looks like it's leaked in the past. These are standard maintenance replacement parts. Sooner or later, they're going to leak.

 

[Mech Addict]

I think both perspectives are valuable here. Don’t fix what aint broke is true enough, especially when these cars, being not young anymore, tend to each have a list of other priorities to address. But there is always something to be said for the common refrain “ as long as you’ve got it apart….”. Though in this case perhaps the hydraulics isn’t actually apart.
I’m changing a rear main seal while my trans is out. It had surpisingly little seepage for a 30yo crank seal, but, it’s a 30 yo crank seal, and pita to access.

 

[XC92]

I think both perspectives are valuable here. Don’t fix what aint broke is true enough, especially when these cars, being not young anymore, tend to each have a list of other priorities to address. But there is always something to be said for the common refrain “ as long as you’ve got it apart….”. Though in this case perhaps the hydraulics isn’t actually apart.
I’m changing a rear main seal while my trans is out. It had surpisingly little seepage for a 30yo crank seal, but, it’s a 30 yo crank seal, and pita to access.

Yep. If it's old, hard to replace and not too expensive, nearly all the advice I've come across is to just replace it even if it "looks" ok. I had the same situation with my rear main seal. Looked fine but 29 years old, cheap and I had the trans out anyway, so I replaced it. Same with all 5 front seals even though all but one looked fine as getting at them is a major job and I was replacing the belts and WP anyway.

With the slave, I'd say it's probably fine to keep the existing one until it fails, as it's not that hard to replace. But my point wasn't to replace it even if it's fine. Rather, to keep in mind that given its age, it's probably due for a replacement, if not now then relatively soon, and to just keep an eye on it and certainly test it if you're having driveline issues.

I think there was some miscommunication here.

 

[1990dsmkid]

My slave cylinder is a new parts store one. Its from rockauto. I forget which brand not that it matters. The master cylinder is an oem one that i had from when i had my old 90 awd. Its not leaking so its staying on. I also have ss braided clutch line. The pedal as no slop. I already pulled it and checked. So im still not 100% what is going on. Ill have to go look and get picture of fork in the window. I did leave the washer shim on from last time. The pedal seems to be releasing or engaging around half way up. Maybe not quite that far.

Does anyone even offer rebuilds on these transmission anymore? Is it even possible? I know parts are few and far between

 

[Mech Addict]

There are only a handful, at least that can do it right. That also likely involves shipping. Jacks’s, TMZ, and TRE, are the ones I know of. If it’s just synchros and bearings, there are still most parts. If gears and such are bad, good luck.
If you need more adjustment in your clutch, swapping the mc rod from a 2g is actually simple and easy (rare on these cars). It’s basically just like adding more threads on your current mc rod.

 

[1990dsmkid]

I know about them companies. Just wasnt sure if they still do dsm transmissions

 

[XC92]

Does anyone even offer rebuilds on these transmission anymore? Is it even possible? I know parts are few and far between

Relax, parts are still available, depending on what you need. Synchros, springs, keys, bearings, hub/sleeves, shims, some gears, etc. Parts that are no longer available new can sometimes be found in decent shape used, and sometimes you can even repair or have someone repair a part if it's not too far gone. Then there are the 3 or 4 shops that still rebuild DSM trans who you can find out about here. It really depends on what's wrong with your trans. Until you find out, it's all guessing.

 

[Mech Addict]

They still are supporting these cars, but I wouldn’t wait too long…
I can’t even find a stock engine mount, and forget about a fuel gauge sender! These shops have hoarded a certain supply of key items, but it’s finite. Depending on you skill and inclination, you could do it yourself. As XC92 has shown, not impossible even if you’ve never had one apart. BUt still a major undertaking of time and research, maybe some special tools (factoring in what you already have and how creative you can get).

 

[XC92]

Well, about that, I'd say that if you insist on owning and driving a 30+ year old performance car that at no point was a mass produced one like an F-150, Camry or CR-V, then you have to be prepared to deal with the inconveniences, like parts that are no longer made or even available, at least new, parts that are still available but fairly expensive, few shops being able to repair anything beyond the routine, certain longstanding idiosyncrasies, and so on.

And if you can't or won't, then you have no place owning and driving one let alone complaining about all this. DSMs are not run of the mill cookie cutter mass production cars that most people drive, and can't be seen or treated as such. They need coddling and are going to annoy you on a semi-regular basis because that's just how they are. But if you're willing to put in the time and effort and accept these limitations, then you will be rewarded by a damn nice platform that's stood the test of time.

Note that I'm not criticizing or responding to anyone, just saying that you can't view DSMs the way you might cars of which orders of magnitude as many have been made over the years and are still being made, which basically any service shop on earth can do most repairs on and get parts for. Hell, no one I meet has ever even heard of an Eagle Talon, and every time someone asks me what car I drive, I cringe inside a bit, knowing their reaction. When I say it's just like a Mitsubishi Eclipse, they say oh sure, of course I've heard of that. $#*@&*$&! Of course, they also can't change their oil.

We drive unicorns, and their horns are falling off and hard to replace.

 

[1990dsmkid]

This is my current fork in window position.

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[AWD-Tony]

That looks to be just right of center. Is that correct?

 

[1990dsmkid]

It looks close. I just dont understand how im out out threads on master cylinder.

 

[AWD-Tony]

Can you push the slave back in by hand?

 

[XC92]

And did you try letting out the cruise switch (or nut if you don't have cruise) where the clutch pedal rests when not pushed in, to move it slightly further down and thus not have to extend the MC rod all the way out?

 

[pauleyman]

This is my current fork in window position.

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Looks good

 

[1990dsmkid]

And did you try letting out the cruise switch (or nut if you don't have cruise) where the clutch pedal rests when not pushed in, to move it slightly further down and thus not have to extend the MC rod all the way out?

I have no let the switch out but looking at it doesnt have much room to go. Maybe a turn or 2. Yes i can also push slave in by hand

 

[Mech Addict]

Just a thought, but there are no shims between the clutch mc and firewall, right? Slack in the clevis & yoke to clutch shaft arm? I'm being lazy, but this is an OEM mc, yes? Looking for any reason that geometry is off. Certainly doesn't seem like your fork is out of position. Your fwd slave is much easier to bleed than a awd (Why; I'll never understand), but a speed bleeder may help ensure no air is robbing any of the pedal travel. There are also ways to pressure push from the reservoir or vacuum extract during bleeding, in addition to the pedal-push basic method. Just thinking out loud.

 

[pauleyman]

Clutch basic 101: A clutch basics thread for everybody

The following statements are my opinions but they are based on 26 years of wrenching on mitsubishis and 21 of those years on DSMs. This applies to 4g63 cars only. I am not commenting on a 420a clutch although some things do apply.This is not meant to be just DSM specific but could be applied...

www.dsmtuners.com

Read this. Your problem likely lies in the pedal assembly or the master and slave. Pay attention to what i wrote about slave bores. May apply yo you.

 

[1990dsmkid]

Clutch basic 101: A clutch basics thread for everybody

The following statements are my opinions but they are based on 26 years of wrenching on mitsubishis and 21 of those years on DSMs. This applies to 4g63 cars only. I am not commenting on a 420a clutch although some things do apply.This is not meant to be just DSM specific but could be applied...

www.dsmtuners.com

Read this. Your problem likely lies in the pedal assembly or the master and slave. Pay attention to what i wrote about slave bores. May apply yo you.

So with the different bores do you really think it would make that much of a difference? I also saw you say you wont use shim. Well if you resurface enough times wont that get you far enough away that even with everything else new you would need to shim to get back where it needs to be? Just curious. I did had my pedal assembly apart and from what i could see and feel it did not look wore out so i put it back together and tightened it back down. Im just at my ends because i always had threads to adjust with. Now for some reason i dont. Maybe something is bad or wore and im just not catching it thinking its fine