1. Join the Community!

    DSMtuners is a massive archive of DSM information - but more importantly, it's a COMMUNITY! Join in and participate with other DSMers, and invite all of your DSM friends to make this place their home. Chat with others, create a build thread, post questions and answers. Get involved! Logging in will also remove many of the advertisements, along with this notice. ;)

ECMlink First time tuning with link, need a little help.

Posted by 406_Talon, Apr 12, 2019

Please Support Morrison Fabrications
Please Support Rix Racing
  1. 406_Talon

    406_Talon Supporting Member

    63
    4
    Joined Jun 30, 2014
    Kalispell, Montana
    So, I got this car from a guy who built it and got sick of it, I'm finally trying to get it right, (the car has mostly sat in a garage) and I'm not too sure where to start. the car had the aem wb and truboost hooked up, and boosts to about 18 psi in 3rd with the truboost on Hi. Buuut...He didn't even have the wb set up in ecm link as a wb, and had a bunch of fuel pulled out on the fuel tab, and mafcomp has been adjusted. It has always had a CEL at full boost above 5k in 3rd and 4th, which I now know to be knock. I got the stupid AEM setup, I think...That's question one - if my RawLinWB and my LinearWB overlay perfectly, that means it's calibrated, right? Question Two: Is there any way to figure out with link what these "Mystery Injectors" are, or can I at least dial them in without knowing the type? Is this knock a result of bad Global fuel settings for my injectors? Question Three: Should I get rid of his fuel slider/mafcomp settings and start fresh? (Do you adjust mafcomp with a stock unhacked maf?) Are these fuel settings why I'm seeing knock? My WB says 9:1 when I get knock, WTF? And finally, Question Four: I'm planning on going SD anyway, would it be easier to just start there? Or do I want to get this dialed in to help setup my VE tables? I guess that's more than four questions, but w/e. If it'll help I got a pic of the injectors, but they're pretty nondescript, with no markings on a black cylinder. 03 Pull is idle, 08 is a long on with a 3rd pull and a 5th pull, showing a bunch of knock. Feel free to ridicule me, I'm a newb.

    Ok, here is this part:

    1). Any boost, vac, or exhaust leaks?
    No
    Boost leak tested 5psi above your max boost with no leaks?
    Yes

    2). Verified mechanical timing?
    Yes

    3). Verified base timing?
    Just bought a timing light, will update in like 30 minutes.

    4). Ignition system
    COP or Stock Coil: COP
    Wire brand and Age: SparkTech
    Spark Plug brand, type and Gap: NGK-BPR7ES/.026

    5). Motor health (Compression Test)
    Haven't done recently, need compression tester - but should be good, bottom end is supposed to be @20k old

    6). Performed basic throttle body adjustments?
    Idle Switch: Simulated via link
    Throttle Cable: Yes
    TPS: Yes and did the calibration in link after warm up
    BISS: Yes

    7). Compression ratio
    stock

    8). Any known bad sensors or brittle wiring?
    No

    9). Any DTC/CEL codes?
    Knock

    10). Electrical system
    No multimeter, I'll buy one if you guys need this. My stereo and lights work fine.

    11). Base fuel pressure and injector values
    Base Fuel Pressure: 43.5
    Injector Size (cc/min): "750" ish

    12). Properly calibrated and configured wideband sensor
    Sensor Brand: AEM :(
    Calibration Date: 4/12/19

    13). Type of fuel
    Type: 91 Octane
    Percent of Ethanol: 0%

    14). Watched ECMlink how-to videos?
    Yes. So many I've come full circle to confused again.
     

    Attached Files:

    Street Build 1K  3

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
    GReddyTalon likes this.
  2. Pulids27

    Pulids27 Probationary Member

    11
    1
    Joined Jun 27, 2017
    Ventura, California
    Start off by getting rid of that wideband and get yourself a Innovative LC2 WB. Along with that, forget about the maf and go with SD. Much simpler and more affective in my opinion.
     
  3. EVLGSX

    EVLGSX Proven Member

    436
    164
    Joined Dec 7, 2017
    Wallingford, Connecticut
    I would keep it simple for now. Stay on the stock MAF. Find out what injectors you have, or dump them and get new. Set the wideband to log as Linear and enter the values into the table. There is a very searchable video on how to setup the wideband to log accurately on youtube. Get the car running good that way and get familiar with the program......then go to SD if you still have a reason to.

    Those injectors look like old school FIC. look close at the engravings.

    Log looks like a little too much timing and way too much fuel
     
    Last edited: Apr 12, 2019

    Street Build 2K  15

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
    406_Talon likes this.
  4. 406_Talon

    406_Talon Supporting Member

    63
    4
    Joined Jun 30, 2014
    Kalispell, Montana
    Thanks for the replies, guys.
    Regarding the AEM WB, I know they are wonky, but I've done my homework there and it's logging as linear, I calibrated it carefully and if you look in the log my RawLinWB overlays perfectly on my LinearWB. My gauge matches link very closely, within .1. Unless I'm incorrect, that means it is working well enough for now, correct? While I appreciate that the LC-1 is better, I'm pretty sure I have figured out calibrating the AEM so I'll wait til later to replace it. I already have to get a set of injectors haha.
    Regarding the tune, should I load the stock 1g timing curve, or pull back on the sliders in the upper rpm? Should I pull fuel out at the RPM I get knock at, or is it my global that's wrong? If AirflowPerRev is inline and AFRest is close to inline, does that mean my global is right? Can too much fuel alone be leading to knock? Like I said, I'm a newb. I read that the 2g timing table was too agressive, so I learned how to change to 1g maps but I was skeert.
     

    Street Build 1K  3

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  5. 406_Talon

    406_Talon Supporting Member

    63
    4
    Joined Jun 30, 2014
    Kalispell, Montana
    Ok, I confirmed that the injectors are Delphi 750s. so my global is close but my deadtime is off. I'm gonna double check base timing and ISC operation and do more tomorrow.
     

    Street Build 1K  3

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  6. EVLGSX

    EVLGSX Proven Member

    436
    164
    Joined Dec 7, 2017
    Wallingford, Connecticut
    sounds like WB is good. use the evo8 stock timing and fuel map. try to target 10.8 at wide open throttle.do this in the fuel table, leave the sliders at 0. The whole point of calibrating everything is to hit your targets in that rmp/load fuel table. leave boost where it is for now. set the check engine light to illuminate at 1* of knock and tweak the tune till there is zero knock. If the light flickers at all during a pull, bail on the pull, dont stay in it! Hopefully the rod bearings arent already hammered.
     

    Street Build 2K  15

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
    406_Talon likes this.
  7. 406_Talon

    406_Talon Supporting Member

    63
    4
    Joined Jun 30, 2014
    Kalispell, Montana
    Hey thanks I realized after rereading that its the evo and not the 1g base maps, I'm gonna put those in and correctly set up the injectors in the morning. I'll post new pulls after that.
     

    Street Build 1K  3

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  8. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

    1,744
    478
    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I'd start fresh now that you know your injector size and WB is working/logging correctly. Zero out fuel slider and adjust you max octane table. 9.6 is too rich and that's prob rich knock you're seeing. Timing table looks fine.

    You can fiddle with tuning MAF until you switch over to SD.

    Well tuned MAF will get the job done.
     

    165  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    168  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 2K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    406_Talon likes this.
  9. 1990TSIAWDTALON

    1990TSIAWDTALON Moderator

    4,554
    1,988
    Joined Nov 14, 2013
    Independence, Kansas
    Just my opinion, I'd go SD and never look back. Boost leak or blown coupler, still get ya home on SD. MAF, you will fight it just to get to a parking lot. To me SD tuning is MUCH easier but thats just me. My kids can even set up a SD car and get a good idle and cruise tune. It is all up to the OP. Just my experiences, I change all our cars to SD now. Notice most modern cars no longer have MAFs, they are already running SD. :)
     

    Street Build 3K  27

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    awd · automatic · 1G DSM

    516  14

    1990 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 1G DSM

    444  18

    1967 Chevrolet Camaro RS
    rwd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 642  4

    1998 Eagle Talon TSi
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM

    Street Build 5K  11  25

    1990 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    13.620 @ 108.460 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
    406_Talon likes this.
  10. EVLGSX

    EVLGSX Proven Member

    436
    164
    Joined Dec 7, 2017
    Wallingford, Connecticut
    It is 100% too much timing for someone with no clue what they are doing, on 91 octane

    It is not fine until there is zero knock. 12* should be the highest value seen in the bottom right corner of the timing map on this car right now................not 16*

    Lower timing a few degrees at wot till you gets things straight. Then add timing for more power once you have a solid grasp. Dont just start with it advanced
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019

    Street Build 2K  15

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
    406_Talon likes this.
  11. EVLGSX

    EVLGSX Proven Member

    436
    164
    Joined Dec 7, 2017
    Wallingford, Connecticut
    Well heres my take on it:

    Is blowing a coupler so common (or hard to deal with) that we should base our build around it? Tighten them. Keep a 10/11 in the glovebox if this happens to you alot...................for whatever reason.

    SD tuning is a more refined approach to tuning for sure, and once hes got his car driving decent and has a reason the switch, maybe he should consider it depending on goals.

    Otherwise, keep it simple for now. No reason to do it now and will be more of a challenge to get the car running the way you want it to, considering where your at right now today.

    Tuning SD is very easy..............once you know how to do it.

    I was kinda thinking the newer cars are changing over because they have to spend less on SD compenents than a MAF. Is it ever about delivering a better product? Or making more $?? just a guess.

    MAF cars are always smoother as DD. SD is great for racing. There is alot going on with the MAF that SD just does not do as far as smoothing. MAF has its place.

    #1 reason to go SD for me when I did was to open up channels for logging
     
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019

    Street Build 2K  15

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
    406_Talon likes this.
  12. 406_Talon

    406_Talon Supporting Member

    63
    4
    Joined Jun 30, 2014
    Kalispell, Montana
    Hey, thanks for all the help, guys. I got the ev08 tables from link and looking at them it looks like there is a much better combo of AFR and timing in the cells where i get knock, so I am going to install those, 0 everything but the global and deadtime, and start from there. For what it's worth I haven't been driving the car like this (poor thing just sits mostly), and I always get out of it as soon as I get a CEL, butI didn't wanna post a log without enough info so I gritted my teeth LOL. Goals are just beginner autocross and hdpe stuff for now. I kinda lean toward SD for the wealth of info on tuning it, and the extra inputs will be nice for logging more. But for now, I just wanna go run at an autocross event next week and not blow up :) Anyway, I'll have new logs pretty soon.
     

    Street Build 1K  3

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  13. EVLGSX

    EVLGSX Proven Member

    436
    164
    Joined Dec 7, 2017
    Wallingford, Connecticut
    sounds like you got this
     

    Street Build 2K  15

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  14. stillrunning

    stillrunning Proven Member

    102
    47
    Joined Oct 10, 2013
    brandon, Florida
    I like how GM uses a blend model of SD and MAFS, has a bias towards SD calculation at lower airflow and transient areas and MAFS bias during steady state and WOT where air volume is stable.
    With bigger cams you generally favor a SD setup for idle due the unstable airflow through the MAFS.
     

    Street Build 430  3

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse Spyder GST
    fwd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  15. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

    1,744
    478
    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Swore I saw 12* this morning when looking at his timing table. Yes 16 is high if he’s starting to tune.
     

    165  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    168  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 2K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  16. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

    1,744
    478
    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    I’m on my phone but I see OP has two logs posted. The log I saw had 12* up top
     

    165  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    168  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 2K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  17. 406_Talon

    406_Talon Supporting Member

    63
    4
    Joined Jun 30, 2014
    Kalispell, Montana
    Ok, I got my injectors set as per the base injector data page on the ECMLink wiki, I set the evo8 base maps (timing and fuel), removed all the adjustments the previous owner had done, and I went for a drive. I did the mafcomp as per instructions, I upped the open loop points to 1.2 load across the board and 50% throttle, and I drove about 4 miles once warmed up, varying rpm and load to give mafcomp as much info as possible, and did the mafcomp utility. I slightly smoothed its output and saved it. I set CEL for 1 deg of knock, and wen to get a log. I still get knock, even at wg pressure it starts coming in around 3-4 k at like 7psi. I didn't make any real pulls b/c I got out of it when the CEL came on. ( A couple times I wasn't that quick so I still see 3.5 deg on the log... LOL) So now I just want to know, Do I pull timing from the Direct Access Table in the cells where I see knock, or do I use the sliders? Also, should I alter fueling or just timing at this point?
     

    Attached Files:

    Street Build 1K  3

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  18. 406_Talon

    406_Talon Supporting Member

    63
    4
    Joined Jun 30, 2014
    Kalispell, Montana
    Looking at the log, my wbfactor is at its highest difference where I knock, do I just need to mess with mafcomp more?
     

    Street Build 1K  3

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  19. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

    1,744
    478
    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Take a WOT pull in 3rd gear from 2k - redline and post the log. What's your base fuel pressure? Operating temp, with vacuum hose off.
     

    165  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    168  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 2K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  20. 406_Talon

    406_Talon Supporting Member

    63
    4
    Joined Jun 30, 2014
    Kalispell, Montana
    Should I do a 3rd gear pull and stay in it through the knock? Or just 2k til knock happens? I don't wanna break anything.I just have a few things to do and I'll go out and get a log.
     

    Street Build 1K  3

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  21. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

    1,744
    478
    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    We have a similar set up. Check my openloopmaxoct table. Is his knock sensor control set correctly? Mine is set to >4k >50% throttle. I can't recall why mine is set this way.
     

    Attached Files:

    165  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    168  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 2K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  22. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

    1,744
    478
    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    Let off once you see the check engine light. But your foot should be on the floor, not 50%. You're tuning WOT now.
     

    165  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    168  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 2K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  23. 406_Talon

    406_Talon Supporting Member

    63
    4
    Joined Jun 30, 2014
    Kalispell, Montana
    Oh, and base FP is 43.5 on my aeromotive afpr gauge with the hose off. drops down with the hose on.
     

    Street Build 1K  3

    1995 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...
  24. tk106

    tk106 Supporting Member

    1,744
    478
    Joined Sep 11, 2017
    Cincinnati, Ohio
    :thumb:
     

    165  3

    2000 Jeep Cherokee Sport - Classic
    awd · automatic · Misc Vehicles

    168  4

    93 Civic 4 Door -sold-
    fwd · manual · Misc Vehicles

    Street Build 2K  6

    1992 Eagle Talon TSi AWD
    12.625 @ 111.42 · 1G DSM
    Loading...
  25. EVLGSX

    EVLGSX Proven Member

    436
    164
    Joined Dec 7, 2017
    Wallingford, Connecticut
    set knock sensor to activate @ 2200rpm and TPS greater than 60%

    Never use the sliders for fuel or timing. Just do it in the table...and decrease the timing values in the trouble cells as you trace your log yes
     

    Street Build 2K  15

    1997 Mitsubishi Eclipse GSX
    awd · manual · 2G DSM
    Loading...

Share This Page

Support Vendors who Support the DSM Community
Archer Fabrication ECM Tuning ExtremePSI Feal Suspension Fuel Injector Clinic Jacks Transmissions JNZ Tuning Kiggly Racing Morrison Fabrications OHM Racing RixRacing RockAuto SouthBay Fuel Injectors STM Tuned Track Decals Track Sculptures VR Speed Factory WheelWell.com