First time on Dyno. Low HP rating. What am I doing wrong? Also A/F problems w/ CHIP

[MarkAngelo05]

Hi there, I went on the dyno today, and I did NOT expect to put down huge numbers, but I did not expect such low horsepower ratings...



Here are my mods...
EVO III GT 18G w/ 15 degree clipped TD05 Turbine wheel(not a type), turbo xs HPBC, ETS FMIC KIT, AFC NEO, FIC 650cc injectors, EVO 9 Fuel Pump, Stainless Steel o2 Housing Recirculated dump, 3 inch down pipe (cat eliminator) to a 3 inch exhaust. Aluminum Race Radiator, Turbo XS Blow off valve, PLX Devices AFR DM-5 Wideband unit, Keydiver's DSMCHIPS Stage 3 chip.

Okay, here's the deal. I tuned for little to NO KNOCK which put me around 11.5:1 on 3 gallons 92 octane gas w/ a bottle of that STP octane booster(which most likely did not help at all. )

First pull I laid down 255 HP @ 18psi boost. I turned the boost up to 19psi for the 2nd pull which got 260.85 WHP.

3rd run was 19 psi and I had leaned the air fuel about 2% on the afc from 5k up. Should have left it at +14% from 5k up, but since I didn't get any knock on the second pull, I thought I could lean it out a tad bit.. but that was a bad idea since I started knocking at around 5.5k. I'm not very pleased with the numbers I got, but this is on stock cams, and my intake temps were around 100 @ the MAS. What do you guys think?

It is very weird because with my dsmchips stage 3 chip, my car runs naturally lean for some reason. I have to keep at least +14% on the AFC to not get leaner than 11.5:1 air fuel ratio... Jeff was thinking that I may have a leak in my fuel system, but I'm sure I don't because I installed everything very well and inspected over again. If I had some kind of pressure leak, wouldn't it run INCREDIBLY LEAN during WOT Under boost? Pretty much, without AFC correction, my wideband reads 13:1 to 12.5:1 air fuel ratio.. I have to set it around +16 to + 18% just to get it to hit 11:1 a/f ratio. What could be the problem. I also have bypassed the AFPR solenoid to eliminate that as the problem.

For the 2nd pull, my peak timing was 15 degrees at 6.4k rpms, dropped back to 14 degrees by 6.8k rpms.
The 3rd pull timing curve seems very awkward, it's not smooth at all.

I logged during the 2nd and 3rd pulls, so here are the logs..

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Any information will be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Mark

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[silver bullit]

92 Gas is one problem and 110 degree intake temp before the turbo is a big problem, have you thought about running a mist kit?

 

[EvolvingGST]

just a quick thought but you should probably change your fuel setup if you are aiming for whp. AND that plus the fact that the number you got isn't bad. that is 260 whp which is after about 18% drive train loss.

1. You are running a Evo IX fuel pump which I believe is around a 190 lph. You should probably get a 255 high pressure since your have a FPR.

2. You are using a SAFC. You should really change to a DSMlink or stand alone for more precise mapping.

3. Cams can help a lot. I mean you are stopping at 5.5k and I believe that turbo stock for a Evo III runs like 6k. I mean at this point cams can help a lot. There is actually a comparison on rockyDSM from what I remember and they were using a Evo III turbo.

 

[MarkAngelo05]

Sorry, that was around 100 degrees intake temp before the turbo. But I have seen it as cool as 94 degrees while I was in shop on the dyno.

I am using the stock Fuel Pressure Regulator w/ the evo 9 pump.

I'm using the afc to "fine tune" Keydiver's DSMCHIP Stage 3

I'm seeing many people dynoing higher Horsepower without the use of cams, better yet, using a 16G or B16G! with less boost! on stock bottom end..

Thanks! keep them coming please..

Mark

 

[CanadianTSi]

You must have an exhaust leak or something screwing up your wideband because your front o2 shows Pig Rich and your adding 15% fuel which should also make you rich.

 

[DJYoshaBYD]

boost leak test?

 

[Eclipse98_RS]

I had my car dynoed at 240 HP with only 10 PSI boost. Id check into fine tuning your AFC

 

[JayRolla]

He was fine tuning the SAFC.

Check for exhuast leaks and do a boost leak test. Also if you still have a cat that can disrupt the wbo2 at the dyno from what Ive been told.

Im somewhat having a problem like you. Just to get rid of any knock im running +20% on all upper rpms under boost. Thats with a stock fuel pump, 550cc injectors, 2gmaf and only 14psi.

 

[bob123131]

not to be a jerk either but i have read from multiple locations that the the evo pump is like a 190 but only flows 170 at best. I will try and find out where i have seen that, not sure if it is credible. So that may be hurting you too especially since i wouldnt run a 190 with an evo with any thign larger than 560. Just personal opnion though.

Denso US EVO 8 Stock Pump

Pump Manufacturer Part # Volts PSI Amps Ltr/Hr
43 10.8 159.62
Denso 195130-3360 12.5 58 11.9 119.24
73 12.9 63.09
43 12.1 201.89 Denso 195130-3360 14 58 13 157.73
73 14 112.93

I guess its not as bad as i thought if you rewire

 

[nightspeed87]

Has it had a full tune up before dynoing? I would assume a boost leak. I thought i fixed all my leaks and later found i was leaking at the injector seals. I run a dsm stage 3 chip, im surprised if the chip was off, normally jeff is pretty good with them, but maybe its not as tried and true for a 2g.
Also do you stil have a cat, and is your exhaust crush bent, any kinks or anything?
And besides that the next thing id say would be a compression check and also to make sure the turbo isnt smoking out any oil or anything or blow by because that can dilude the combustion mixture and lower hp as well.
Oh and how is your intake set up? like what kind of front mount?

 

[Ceddy]

Is your "EVO III GT 18G w/ 15 degree clipped TD05 Turbine wheel" an ebay turbo or is it Evo 3 GT you put a 18g compressor wheel in and clipped the turbine wheel?

 

[MarkAngelo05]

Hi! My turbo was made with the 18G wheel, 15degree clipped TDO5 turbine wheel stuffed in a EVOIII GT housing, the compressor housing had to be ported for clearance aswell. It's from turbochargers.com

I have checked for boost leaks, and I'm pretty sure I'm good on that, as I just redid my whole charge piping, and checked for leaks, etc.
I'm using Extreme Turbo Systems FMIC street/strip setup.

My exhaust is Mandrel bent, I am not running a catilytic converter, and I do not have any exhaust leaks, as I put new gaskets in aswell.

My OWN wideband o2 sensor reading was pretty close to the wideband a/f that the dyno was seeing.
This is why I do not understand why my Narrowband O2 is so HIGH?? it's pretty much pig rich, you think my culprit could be my narrowband o2 sensor is going out??? Is this what is causing my car to run lean, so lean that I have to add over 14% positive on my AFC!!??

Jeff said that while you are at Wide Open throttle, the ECU does not rely on the o2 voltage... so even if my stock o2 sensor is bad, it wouldn't make me run lean? right?

I'm using the EVO XI fuel pump, which is known to flow more than the EVO8 pumps.. I believe it's around 200lph.


Thank you very much for your replies!

Mark

 

[PieEyedPiper]

It was suggested you upgrade your fuel pump. I don't think you should. What you're using is just fine. But perhaps getting an AFPR would be a good idea for further tuning purposes.

When you were at the dyno, did they uninstall your wideband sensor and use an in house one? How exactly did they use their unit to see your values?

I'm just thinking if they just hooked up to your own WB sensor, using they're gauge or viewing tool, maybe you're just super rich all the way across (meaning your NB sensor is correct) and the WB is giving you erroneous readings.

 

[MarkAngelo05]

It was suggested you upgrade your fuel pump. I don't think you should. What you're using is just fine. But perhaps getting an AFPR would be a good idea for further tuning purposes.

When you were at the dyno, did they uninstall your wideband sensor and use an in house one? How exactly did they use their unit to see your values?

I'm just thinking if they just hooked up to your own WB sensor, using they're gauge or viewing tool, maybe you're just super rich all the way across (meaning your NB sensor is correct) and the WB is giving you erroneous readings.

I was monitoring my wideband values while they ran it on the dyno. (I was logging and keeping an eye on the knock meter/knock cel and the wideband from the passenger side.)

The shop used their own wideband a/f system by dynojet, it's a tail pipe sniffer, and it's darn close to my OWN wideband readings... I'm at around 11.5:1 to 12:1 on my own wideband....

Thanks!!

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Damn! I thought I was onto something, haha!
Just doesn't make sense how your NB o2 readings are so darned high.

Have you tried ignoring your WB and just aiming for a .94v or something from the NB sensor? I would imagine if your NB sensor was going out it wouldn't just read more voltage at WOT, you'd be experiencing other problems as well.

If you're up to it I'd suggest you put some faith into your stock 02 sensor and see if you get any result. You'll know if you're knocking like crazy so be reasonable when trying this.

 

[90laserRSfwd]

I made 229 fwhp on a ported 14b last night on the dyno with 25psi and 104 oct. Custom chip, and some other stuff. I just bought this car so that was a base line. No loger or anything in it yet. I don't understand how those #'s are so low either, wanna buy a 14b? No but on a serious note I hope you get it figured out and it doesn't cost you and arm and a leg to do it. Let us know how you make out.

 

[MarkAngelo05]

I made 229 fwhp on a ported 14b last night on the dyno with 25psi and 104 oct. Custom chip, and some other stuff. I just bought this car so that was a base line. No loger or anything in it yet. I don't understand how those #'s are so low either, wanna buy a 14b? No but on a serious note I hope you get it figured out and it doesn't cost you and arm and a leg to do it. Let us know how you make out.

wow.. congrats on your numbers.. that's darn good for a 14B @ 25PSI!! Thanks for the kind words! I am just glad I went to go dyno with the mind thought of just being happy putting down more Horsepower than a stock GST... hehe

Damn! I thought I was onto something, haha!
Just doesn't make sense how your NB o2 readings are so darned high.

Have you tried ignoring your WB and just aiming for a .94v or something from the NB sensor? I would imagine if your NB sensor was going out it wouldn't just read more voltage at WOT, you'd be experiencing other problems as well.

If you're up to it I'd suggest you put some faith into your stock 02 sensor and see if you get any result. You'll know if you're knocking like crazy so be reasonable when trying this.

Umm.. I would but if I tune for something like .95 using the narrowband o2, my wideband o2 reads around 14:1 and I get major counts of knock right when boost kicks in! which was not too cool... that's why on my last run, my o2 voltage was still around the high 90's and in the 1.0v area, and slight knock came in and caused me to get only 237whp...

you guys think I can make more power staying around 11:1 to 10.5:1 air fuel ratio on pump gas?? It's weird because on the 260hp dyno run, I saw the knock needle move just a tad, to the first line, but no KNOCK CEL, which jeff said he sets the CEL to come on when knock starts to make the ecu pull timing back... it may be a lil off.. I'll just tune for NO NEEDLE MOVEMENT...

Thanks for the opinions.. keep them coming please... What are you guys seeing as PEAK TIMING ON 20PSI OF BOOST and around 7k rpms!!????? thanks!

Mark

 

[PieEyedPiper]

With an 18g you will be on the higher map giving you a maximum of 16*.
I really do wonder whats up with your NB 02 sensor though, do you have another you can swap in? If not they at $63 shipped at www.sparkplugs.com just a consideration.

You are knocking and you are holding timing, so maybe just further tuning, like you suggested, is the key.

But theres still a few unkowns here like why your chip isn't giving you the target A/Fr's you're supposed to be getting and why you need so much correction with the SAFC and why your front o2 sensor is messing with you.

If I were you I'd just continue tuning and see what I could improve (add more fuel), but a saying does come to mind.
"Treat the cause not the symptoms"

Let us know how richening up your tune works!

 

[MarkAngelo05]

I talked to Jeff (dsmchips) and he's being very helpful.. He's in the process of making new maps for me to correct my lean fuel map and make changes to the timing table as well. I e-mailed him a copy of my dyno sheet and he noticed my car was still around 12:1 to 11.5:1 even with 14% positive AFC corrections.. he also noted to me that it is not a fuel pressure/ fuel system problem because of how smooth my air fuel richened up through boost... it would have been very inconsistent if it was a bad afpr or a bad fuel pressure due to leaking seals in the fuel system. I'll be getting the new chips in the mail sometime next week.. so I'll let y'all know how that goes.. keydiver, dsmchips.com is awesome!

Thanks for all the help.. if anybody has anything else to add, please do..

Mark