First DSM. how much can it handle with my build?

[defeat54]

How much boost can the car safely handle with this build? Will be taking it to a dyno.

--Engine--

-The motor has all forged internals, Eagle Rods, Wiseco Pistons, Polished Factory Forged Crank, Acl Race bearings, Arp head studs & main studs, Supertech Valves, Springs & Retainers, mild port & polish

-Hot Tanked Engine Block/ Bored (.40 over) & honed / repainted block

-Wiseco pistons (8:8:1 compression) & Eagle H-beam rods

-Mild stage 1 Port & Polish with 3 angle valve job

-Supertech valves & springs w/ titanium retainers

-BC stage 1 camshafts

-Prothane Engine mounts all around

-3" Exhaust from the turbo back with Greddy muffler

-Garret .60 trim T-3 turbo water & oil cooled with polished cold side housing (Just rebuilt >300 miles on it) no shaft play.

-Greddy type-S blow off valve

-Innovative 38mm wastegate w/ 10lb spring

-Iron T3/T4 log style a/c friendly turbo manifold

-Front mount intercooler 32x17x2.5"

-2.5" polished Intercooler Piping

-Vibrant 6 ply high temp and reinforced couplers

-OBX Intake Manifold

-Fujita High Performance air filter

-Blue wire loomed the whole harness

-New Gates timing belt and pullies/ New water pump

-Fluidyne Full Aluminum Racing Radiator with 2 12" fans that run constant off the ecu

-Obx upper and lower 6 ply high temp radiator hoses

-1g gst blue top 440cc injectors

-Obx red high flow fuel rail

-Sard fuel pressure regulator

-Walbro 255lph fuel pump

-Vortech SFMU with full fuel trim adjustment

-GM 4 bar MAP sensor with pigtail harness

-Apexi Safc NEO A/F controller/tuner

-HKS Turbo Timer with Multi Functions and V. display

--Drivetrain--

-Full 5spd swap

-SPEC street and track stage 2 clutch

-BLOX 392 gram Weighted shift knob with B&M short shifter

-Brand New Napa Axels (rated to 300+ hp)

-Endless braided clutch line used with dot 4 fluid

-New napa clutch master and slave cylinders.

Anyone know a good place to have these cars tuned in Montgomery, AL area?

 

[defeat54]

I bought the car with the above mods and I went into it knowing it needed "piston rings". Turns out the forged pistons were all showing large amounts of damage due to the car running lean. What size injectors should I purchase after I'm done with the rebuild and how much boost can I crank it up to then with a proper tune?

 

[Boostinsideways]

It depends on your tune. If you enough fuel, proper knock control, you can push that turbo to its limits. Your not really gonna get much out of the safc. But you could get an AEM/Haltech/Megasquirt or one of the other standalone options for the 420a.

 

[bryanwheat]

Is the turbo just a t3 60 trim or a t3/t4?

 

[defeat54]

The owner did say he had bigger injectors in there but the tuner couldn't get it tuned with them in there. I'll be ordering the Megasquirt and I still need to figure out what size injectors to get. Is 16psi safe to run with mega and the proper size injectors?Ty for the help guys.

T3 60 trim

 

[gusu]

If he was trying to tune it with a SAFC that would have been the problem. They don't work great after 650cc.

I'd get the largest you can afford. If you decide your 60 trim isn't making enough power but don't want to upgrade your turbo and try a quick way of more power you can go E85 if you take into account you will need 33.3% more fuel to run it.

But keep in mind under 1000cc injectors are roughly the same price regardless of size, but after 1000cc the price goes up and sometimes does significant jumps.

 

[bryanwheat]

If it is just a t3 60 trim than chances are that it isn't much bigger than a t28. IT is a 35lb/min turbo. Probably similar to the stock Thunderbird super coupe turbo. Do you know if the regulator is a standard 1:1 ratio or is it the 12:1 ratio? I don't see any reason why (if the a/f ratio's are good) that you couldn't run 10-14 psi out of that turbo with those 450's. If you have the 12:1 probably more.

 

[LiquidX]

If it is a 35lbs/min turbo then you will want to be at a safe 25lbs/min of airflow to stay at 80%IDC. You will max the injectors at 32lbs.
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/articles-tuning-ecu/366003-injector-fuel-pump-supported-airflow.html

 

[defeat54]

The regulator is a standard 1:1 ratio. I'm going to order 650cc injectors and tune it for 16psi. Still need to figure out a place to dyno it in Alabama.

Thank you very much for the help!

 

[PieEyedPiper]

After you deal with your fuel, looks like that type s could be the next limiting factor.

 

[Bud92gsx]

I was going to say your injectors are going to be your you limiting factor as far as boost goes..

And fyi the 1g turbo and 2g turbo injectors are 450's..The 1g blue tops are single spray pattern, and the 2g black tops are dual spray pattern..

 

[LiquidX]

And fyi the 1g and 2g injectors are 450's..The 1g blue tops are single spray patter, and the 2g black tops are dual spray pettern..

Actually


pink - 240cc - (1g 2.0Ln/t)
tan - 390cc - (1g turbo auto)
blue - 450cc - (1g turbo m/t)
black - 450cc - (2g turbo)

 

[Bud92gsx]

Ya you qouted me before I fixed it...I made it more specific when I fixed it

And good thing you added the auto injectors, I didn't even think about putting that in my post..

 

[defeat54]

So 16 is safe with a good tune and the injectors I decided to go with?

Hoping for 300 at the dyno

 

[LiquidX]

So 16 is safe with a good tune and the injectors I decided to go with?

Hoping for 300 at the dyno

You need to read the log on what's going on. As I mentioned earlier and posted the link about supported fuel vs pressure. You will max your injectors out at 32 lbs/min.

You will NOT be near 300 on stock injectors. Sorry. You will damage your motor if you tune the injectors beyond 100% IDC when the AFR is getting leaner from lack of fuel.


You are at the same flow rate of a 16g (505 CFM) which cannot go more than 13psi on a stock fuel system before maxing out the injectors. You would be safe at 10psi for a 35 lb/min turbo (507 CFM). But again, you need to watch the logger for your IDC% and you really do not want to go above 80%. If the tuner goes above 90% or close to 100% then he needs to learn some stuff.


You won't see much gain until you upgrade your fuel system.

 

[defeat54]

I did say I was going with the 650cc injectors, Not sure if you missed it.

 

[LiquidX]

I did say I was going with the 650cc injectors, Not sure if you missed it.

I did miss that.

650cc injectors will let the turbo max out since they are at 80% at 37 lbs/min. This is assuming that your turbo is a 35 lb/min turbo which I read above and if that's true, that is only a chest hair larger than a 16g for flow.

 

[defeat54]

Should I go bigger to be safe? Ty for the help

 

[LiquidX]

Should I go bigger to be safe? Ty for the help

80% IDC is fine and you will be under that percentage assuming your turbo flows 35 lb/min. This is the exact reason why you log when you tune so you can see what the engine is doing.

 

[defeat54]

I have the money to upgrade the turbo while the car is apart, and ideas? t3 60 trim turbo is what I have atm.

 

[9secondeclipse]

I'm new to this, how do I start a thread?

 

[clipto]

Ok, here is my 2 cents. You have stock injectors right, and a 60 trim if i read right? I made 300hp with a 14b 550's and race gas with afc. You should make good power with that turbo, your motor is built enough I mean u should be able to push more boost out of it, but your wastegate might hold you back depending on how far you want to take it. Small upgrade would be 1000cc injectors and ecmlink. Up the boost and see what happens. You can't go fast if you don't break stuff.

 

[Swarley815]

Well if you have external wastegate with 10lb spring the most you will get is 20 psi with manual boost controller. If you want more boost than that then you need a different spring

 

[crash89]

You will NOT be near 300 on stock injectors. Sorry. You will damage your motor if you tune the injectors beyond 100% IDC when the AFR is getting leaner from lack of fuel.
.

Not entirely true. The dyno in my profile was done on stock injectors. I didnt say it was the smartest idea but I did make 297 at the wheels on stock injectors..

255
stock injectors
bc 272 cams
20g with a 10lb spring

NO TUNE WHATSO EVER

So, it IS possible to make 300 whp with stock injectors. Do I advise doing it? No. I did log both my dyno runs (I was supposed to have 3). I didnt allow them to make a third after I saw how lean I was. By redline I was seeing 120% IDC's. I cant believe the car ran fine.

 

[eSCAPEist_]

The regulator is a standard 1:1 ratio. I'm going to order 650cc injectors and tune it for 16psi. Still need to figure out a place to dyno it in Alabama.

Thank you very much for the help!

Im in Decatur, AL, I know a fair distance from Montgomery haha, but couple great places around here. I know of one in Huntsville that actually tunes DSM's with ECMlink (DSMlink): Trackmasters, Inc

I'm sure there are some around south too though, check for dyno listings in Birmingham or so, I heard there's 2 in Tuscaloosa. But hey man nice to see a fellow DSMer from the state, welcome to the fam.

-eSCAPEist_