First couple of Logs...lots of knock

[GSXlaunch]

My thinking is this may be due to the stock fuel pump not being able to keep up at higher rpms. It does not look like it has ever been changed. Fuel filter and plugs only have about 3k miles on them...mods in profile

Can someone please help me figure out where exactly I stand...Please keep in mind that I am still running stock injectors, fuel pump and smic and have Denso O2 Sensor...I am pretty sure I will need larger injectors if I plan on running 20+psi at the track

Just a quick run 1st trhu 3rd gears running about 14-15psi. Car did not hesitate at all pulled nice and smooth
First Gear: (RPM, Knock, Timing, O2 v, Inj DC%, TP%)
2093-0-29-.75-7-22
2468-0-27-.04-11-29
2656-0-28-.82-12-29
2875-0-29-.84-12-31
3062-0-30-.84-14-33
3406-0-28-.67-17-37
3718-1-27-.86-27-42
4592-0-25-.86-49-40
5093-0-21-.84-59-44
5562-0-21-.84-77-48
6031-0-21-.82-91-53
6406-0-18-.80-88-69
6718-0-39-.76-10-10

Second Gear: (RPM, Knock, Timing, O2 v, Inj DC%, TP%)
3968-2-23-.86-38-49
4250-1-20-.86-53-49
4468-1-18-.86-63-48
4750-0-18-.84-77-56
5000-0-18-.82-85-59
5156-0-20-.80-84-65
5531-6-19-.80-93-67
5812-9-18-.80-96-66
6187-9-18-.80-92-56

Third Gear: (RPM, Knock, Timing, O2 v, Inj DC%, TP%)
4062-0-27-.84-29-49
4281-2-23-.86-42-49
4312-1-18.84-52-43
4531-1-20-.86-58-49
4687-14-14-.82-73-58
4718-13-13-.82-76-60
4906-12-14-.80-81-66
4937-13-13-.82-80-62
5062-13-14-.82-83-66
5187-12-16-.80-83-64
5218-13-15-.80-82-64
5375-12-17-.80-86-64
5468-11-17-.80-86-68
5656-15-16-.80-91-69
5750-14-17-.80-93-69
5937-14-17-.80-93-69
6218-13-16-.78-94-69
6125-13-16-.80-32-10


Second Log: 2nd and 3rd gear pulls...
2nd Gear: (RPM, Knock, Timing, O2 v, Inj DC%, TP%)
4656-7-16-.80-72-56 (First sign of knock)
5593-16-15-.78-94-100
5875-16-16-.76-92-100
6500-15-15-.75-94-100
6875-21-10-.69-95-100
5656-1-21-.80-83-48

Third Gear: (RPM, Knock, Timing, O2 v, Inj DC%, TP%)
5437-1-24-.82-67-59
5656-24-12-.76-94-100
6000-21-15-.76-96-100
6343-20-12-.75-97-100
6531-31-9-.55-83-100
6468-42-5-.59-84-100
6625-42-18-.80-7-10

These stayed the same throughout the run...
O2 trim - 100%
Fuel trim hi - 110%
Fuel trim mid- 100%
Fuek trim lo - 118%

I did a second log from 1st - 3rd...WOT. The highest knock on that run was 18 at 5656rpm and 100% throttle

On a side note...car pulled much harder at wot...no hesitation, or missing...just smooth acceleration. Car feels like it wants to pull way past 7k. With some luck I will have my walbro 255 hooked up tomorrow which should eliminate most of the high end knock (I think)

Just want to see what you guys thought of this. Is this a sign of lean situation? Thanks for any and all help.

TT

 

[whitegst97]

Wow your second log in 3rd gear i think was a little dangerous, .59 02 volt?? that's really lean there for causing all the knock and the timing retardation. I didn't really look at your mods but you stated you didn't have a fuel pump, im going through the same thing i just installed the AFC and rewired the stock FP but didn' help much still getting 14-18 knock sums. I recommend you get the fuel pump and rewire it before doing some more run and possibly damage your car. Also your low trim shows very lean (max is 120) once you get your fuel pump in everything should be better and you would be able to boost 16 or so psi's without problems. If you dont have an afc it'll be in your best interest to get one in order to take advantage of your FP.

 

[GSXlaunch]

First off thanks for responding...

Yeah I know it was pretty lean, at only 13psi. Strange thing is that the car felt nice and strong and according to my egt numbers everything was still okay. I do have an SAFC (old style knob type). It will be installed later this week...after my FP & rewire. I think I am also going to retard my timing 1deg as it looked a little high. Ive got a lot to learn about this tuning stuff.

 

[whitegst97]

Any AFC is good enough, after the FP and the rewire you should have enough fuel to boost up to 16 psi i would say. The EGT weren't probably really high but they should have been up there somewhere since the 02's were really low at some levels and the timing, check your base timing with timing light if you have a chance, gotta do that myself, i was told that if base timing was higher than 5 could increase knock. Good luck and let me know how things go, im around the same position here waiting for the fuel pump, right now my boost creeps to 16 psi then drops to 14 and knock levels at around 15 with some more fuel the knock should go away. Good luck

 

[GSXlaunch]

I will check my timing tonight...let me get this straight...at idle about 750 or so it should be 5 according to the datalogger correct? Mine jumps around from 10-12...sometimes 14. Not sure this is normal or not. Thanks

 

[whitegst97]

No at idle the logger shows the base timing plus what the ecu adds if conditions are right should be from 8-12 degrees. The only way to check the base timing is with a timing light, which im planning on getting to check myself since im also getting high knock.

 

[GSXlaunch]

A little more information....

I was using the NGK BPR6ES...here is bad picture of what they looked like. By looking at the plugs it did not seem like I was leaning out too much. There was the usual carbon build up but no oil or whiteness.

http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/leche1103/detail?.dir=/fd17&.dnm=cd74.jpg

Anyway, I have the BPR7ES' in now. My 255 and rewire are going in tomorrow.

On a side note...my injectors (stock 450's) are really ticking. By using the screwdrive/microphone test I could not hear any tapping coming from under the valve cover...but once I got to the injectors the ticking got much louder...you can hear them by just standing there if you try. Hopefully my logs get better after tomorrow. Thanks

 

[whitegst97]

My injectors tick loud too, weird usually the lifters tend to tick but hey, that's not a big deal, let me know how things go with the fuel pump, as im still waiting for mine, i couldn't see the pic of the spark plug very well kind of fussy, but the tip looked whitish, i could be wrong i really didn't take a good look them.

 

[92awddsm]

Why the hell are you still driving it if you are getting 20-40 counts knock? Do you still have a head gasket left? I get really worried at 15 counts knock.

 

[GSXlaunch]

92awddsm, thanks for making me feel better...

I did not know I was running that high knock until my first WOT log a few days ago. Since then I have turned the boost down to 10 and have basically not driven the car (until this morning) I logged a minute or so of normal driving 1st-5th gears this morning...I had zero knock. So I can rule out PK. I also noticed that I am missing a bolt on the tranny mount on the pass side. Not where the tranny mounts to the engine but where the egine mount sits on the tranny. At least I think that is an engine mount. I am not sure if this also could be causing my problem. With that much knock shouldnt I have felt bogging or something? I didnt. Anyway, pump should (hopefully) be in by lunch time.

 

[whitegst97]

I really despise those people that no f*ing live and like to put other down, damn just help and if not ignore the thread. Now knock won't make the car bog unless it's really high where it starts to pull timing or where it's knocking intermitently(caused by a knock sensor connected in the wrong plug) i know by experience but if it's just not advancing timing it will feel like the car is pulling normally just not as hard. Like i said get your fuel pump in, rewire it if possible and go to a nice empty place and try doing some 3rd gear WOT logs, your knock should be solved by adding somefuel. Good luck.

 

[jd1828af]

looks like you might have PK. just because you knock went a way for a day or so doesnt mean that you dont have it. my car will a day or two sometimes with out any knock. then out of nowhere it will get 43 counts every time i touch the gas. ive also noticed that it rarely will have PK in the mornings when the car is cold. except when it really cold and it gets bad lifter tick.

 

[GSXlaunch]

Went to get the walbro put on but they striped the dang 14mm fitting on the fuel line. So no go on the pump...but we did get the re-wire hooked up to the stock pump. I did a quick 2nd and 3rd gear log at about 11psi and another at 14-15psi...not good yet, but seemed better to me anyway. Any thoughts and/or recommendations...(not you 92awddsm, just kidding)

2nd Gear: 11PSI
RPM/Knock/Timing/O2 V/Air Flow Hz/Inj DC%/Thottle Pos/O2 Trim%
3500 0 34 .80 333 12 34 135
3906 0 24 .86 869 36 54 100
4437 0 19 .84 1549 65 68 100
5218 0 19 .84 1606 78 100 100
5625 0 22 .84 1606 87 100 100
6000 0 20 .82 1606 89 100 100
6500 0 18 .82 1606 97 100 100
6781 0 16 .82 1606 24 10 100

3rd Gear: 11PSI
RPM/Knock/Timing/O2 V/Air Flow Hz/Inj DC%/Thottle Pos/O2 Trim%
4812 1 17 .84 1606 68 100 100
5281 0 18 .84 1606 74 100 100
5406 0 19 .84 1606 77 100 100
5687 0 20 .84 1606 85 100 100
5906 0 21 .82 1606 87 100 100
6187 0 21 .82 1606 92 100 100

The next log was done in 2nd-3rd gears at 14psi
2nd Gear: 14-15psi
RPM/Knock/Timing/O2 V/Air Flow Hz/Inj DC%/Thottle Pos/O2 Trim%
3937 1 18 .84 1083 45 52 100
4500 0 18 .84 1486 59 57 100
4906 0 17 .84 1606 72 82 100
5250 0 19 .84 1606 78 98 100
5781 0 20 .82 1606 85 100 100
6062 0 20 .82 1606 89 100 100
6250 0 20 .82 1606 92 100 100
6531 0 18 .82 1606 90 100 100
6750 6 16 .33 674 7 10 100

3rd Gear: 14-15psi
RPM/Knock/Timing/O2 V/Air Flow Hz/Inj DC%/Thottle Pos/O2 Trim%
4593 0 19 .84 1455 60 62 100
4718 7 15 .84 1606 67 80 100
5000 12 12 .84 1606 69 100 100
5250 12 15 .84 1606 72 100 100
5406 11 15 .84 1606 76 100 100
5593 11 16 .82 1606 82 58 100

 

[Boost Deez]

reduce the timing 1 degree add more fuel and you might wanna invest in a wideband o2
it will help alot.......

 

[GSXlaunch]

I meant to reduce the timing last night by 1deg just didnt get to it. Does anyone else besides me agree the last two logs are better? I think I will keep the boost where it is 14-no more than 15psi once I lose the 1deg. I love the fact that I am not getting any boost creep at all. I guess the porting paid off. As for the wideband O2 I need to read up on that. Do you guys think it is safe to install my safc to work with my stock re-wired pump for now-or should I wait until I get the walbro 255 installed? Since they jacked up my fitting I will need to cut that one off and get a new fuel pump holder with the cap, new fitting and wiring.

I am almost ashamed to ask...but do you guys recommend using the octane booster crap? Does it work at all? Thanks again for all the response/help.

TT

 

[whitegst97]

i think the logs look much better but you should get the AFC installed when ever you want but work on it with the fuel pump you'll have to add lots of gas to solve the knock with just the rewire and may lead to fuel cut.

 

[92awddsm]

The afc will work fine on the rewired pump with stock injectors. Make sure you reset the ecu so you can bring fuel trims back to 100% and the adjust from there. I would rule out pk because you are only getting knock at high rpms. Pk will usually show throughout the rpm range. What octane fuel are you running when you logged? What are the coolant temps during the log? And whitegst97, I wasnt trying to flame but if you flame at me, I will retaliate Besides, learn what you are talking about before you post. 120% lftrim is not max. Ive personally seen 139% lftrim on my own car. I asked a simple question in a manner that he would understand that it is not good. Ive seen people run with that much knock and not know any better untill poof, hg has blown but they dont know why. Or even worse, destroy bearings, rings, pistons, valves, etc.

 

[GSXlaunch]

After I get home I will park it until I get the afc and 255 installed.

I was running 93 oct and coolant temps were at 98-100range


As for the lftrim, that is max on a 90...either way thanks for all the help. I now realize I need fuel...fuel...fuel!!!!! uh...then more boost , then higer flowing injectors , then afpr

I just dont understand how these guys are getting into the 12's with half the mods I have...stock injectors, turbo, fuel pump, smic etc...its mind boggling.

 

[92awddsm]

Coolant temps seem really low. You will make the most power safely around 170-190 degrees. As for getting into the 12 sec brackett, you are on the way. The rest of us spent lots of time and $ on tuning to get there. You are just beginning and it does get worse before it gets better. Good luck.

 

[GSXlaunch]

Good point...oh well I guess my car will be parked in the garage for another week.

Thanks again guys.