Evo I, II, III Vs DSM

[Andrew7DG]

I haven't found out a lot of info and I tried to search for this topic but didn't come up with anything. Just a lot about the Evo 3 turbo. I love the evos but can't afford one.
So the closest thing that I own is a 90 DSM Eclipse AWD Turbo.

There was a couple of evos that never saw american pavement. I am just going over the first couple of evos because they have a similar 4g63 engine layout meaning that the timing belt is to the right of the engine if you were looking at it vs the Left side on the latest evos.

What were the differences between the engines of these cars and the ones that we got? I know there is a turbo difference with the evo 3 16G being a favorite with the DSM people. I would like to know what else was in these japanese power plants that we didn't see in our DSM or was there not anything?

What besides the turbo can I add to my eclipse that would make it powerful like one of the evos? Is it possible to fit an evo engine into a dsm or are they completely different engines? Can a evo computer be used in a dsm? What else would benifit the dsm that the evo had?

For suspension I am guessing the Evo had a better suspension setup but why was it better? What kind of suspension did it have?

Is it possible to import an evo. I have seen a couple of magazine articles on them and they were in the states but I am guessing it is very rare like a Skyline.

I have heard that they have the plumbing for the anti lag. How is this done?
I have also heard that the evo turbos withstand the anti lag abuse, if not is there away to build a turbo to withstand anti lag system

So anyway I just trying to start a discussion on this. I love my GSX so I don't want to bash it or anything. I might just be kind of nerdy and trying to put a lot of evo parts into the eclipse so it looks like an evo underneith the hood.



Thanks and post any links that might be helpful with this discussion or if there is a thread on this that I haven't found post that.

 

[DSMark]

Well if you looking for an american equivalent of the earlier evos you can try picking up a galant vr4 since they're often referred to as the evo zero. The evo 3 is the closest to the american counterpart dsm and yes people do swap out their motors for that one. The evo 3 motor is usually called the jdm 6-bolt and usually comes with an evo 3 16g, yellow top 510 cc injectors and the cyclone intake manifold ( though most people don't hook them up because its a pain and you dont really get the big of a power difference). I have no clue about the suspension setup on the earlier evo's so i'll let someone else pick up on that one.

 

[GVR4592]

1993: 8.5:1 compression, slightly modified cylinder head, supposedly lighter and stronger internals, but that part is unlikely.

1994:Bigger cams, improved intake manifold, exhaust changes.

1995: TDO5H-16g6 turbo (same compressor that is used in the Evo 8) 9:1 compression, more exhaust changes, larger intercooler.


Suspension and chassis's changed too much for me to keep up with. They were changing things up to twice a year, to be competitive in rally.

The engine's are 7 bolt and the mounts are different than 1g mounts. It wouldn't be worth the time or money to swap one in unless you get a really good deal on one.

Parts that could benefit a Dsm: Cams, Pistons, Turbo, Intercooler, Exhaust manifolds, O2 housing, and possibly the intake manifold and cylinder head. Of course the only parts you can get new are the turbo, exhaust manifold , and O2 housing.

The only Evo that had a different turbine wheel designed for use with anti-lag that I am aware of is the EVO 6(1999). However all of the mechanical pieces of anti-lag were put on the cars in 1996, but with no provisions for it in the ecu.

As for importing, if the car is less than 20 years old it has to meet the crash and safety standards of vehicle from that year (very expensive). If it's older than 20 years old, it is much much easier to import a vehicle. There are obviously ways around that ($$$$) if you know an importer that would risk the consequences of importing a complete car for you.

I read most of this on an Australian web site a few years ago, I don't remember the name, I'll see if I can find the link. They were much like us and weren't able to import the cars on a high level, although some did make it to Australia.

 

[GVR4592]

Well if you looking for an american equivalent of the earlier evos you can try picking up a galant vr4 since they're often referred to as the evo zero. The evo 3 is the closest to the american counterpart dsm and yes people do swap out their motors for that one. The evo 3 motor is usually called the jdm 6-bolt and usually comes with an evo 3 16g, yellow top 510 cc injectors and the cyclone intake manifold ( though most people don't hook them up because its a pain and you dont really get the big of a power difference). I have no clue about the suspension setup on the earlier evo's so i'll let someone else pick up on that one.

That's not correct. The JDM 6-bolt with the Big 16g and 510's comes from the E38A Galant VR4 RS Evolution. No 6 bolt came with an Evo 3 turbo from the factory.

 

[DSMark]

That's not correct. The JDM 6-bolt with the Big 16g and 510's comes from the E38A Galant VR4 RS Evolution. No 6 bolt came with an Evo 3 turbo from the factory.

My mistake he's right. I'm retarded and i actually knew that i gave you the wrong information.

 

[98evoIIIpwr]

Im curious on a few things:

I myself swapped in an evo3 motor into my 98 talon.. hence the name... I tried comparing the cams to my 2nd gen cams and 1st gen. I didnt notice a difference from what the eye could see anyways. I actually have a 1st gen head and intake manifold in my garage right now and Im almost willing to take the intake mani off of my evo motor to see which has bigger ports. Obviously the exhaust mani on an evo is bigger then any other production DSM. I havent even taken the time to look at the exhaust ports on the head but im willing to bet they are bigger then a 2nd gens due to the larger manifold. I have heard speculations that the evos came with forged internals stock. As we have already determined the compression ratio is higher then our DSM's.

As far as the swap goes, simple. I didnt have to change anything up at all. Basically I removed the AC and EGR bullcrap and dropped it in. It bolted to my FWD tranny also. The only thing I had to do was use my flywheel and spacer plate on the tranny. Clutch included all bolted up perfectly.

I would definetly recommend getting one if you come across a good deal. I got mine for 1k and that seemed fair. I know most places try to get like 2k + for the motors. Considering I upgraded turbos and manifold. I was able to sell the e316G, mani, 02, injectors and make almost all of my money back. Well worth the investment IMO.

Im trying to find exact specs on the motor (basically the internals) on evolutionm.net and googling. I havent really had that much luck. If someone can give us some PROOF of what the evo 3's came with internally then Im sure that would help me and the thread starter out tremendously...

Thanks for the space.

 

[Andrew7DG]

Well I am glad I didn't get banned from this site for asking the question and that it is getting good responce.

So one question I did have (accually I have lots of questions) the evos then came with the 7 bolt block but then do they suffer from the crank walk issue or is that an american flaw?
How much Hp then can the stock internals take on a stock block. Must be more then the American blocks.

I thought our cars came with forged internals. Have I been mistaken??!!!

For the pistons, I was going to switch to the 8.5 compression from the 2G however the evo pistions have a 9:0?! I would think that is kind of a high compression for a turbo but maybe not. Would those pistions work in my 4g63? where do I find a set?

This goes more into compression theory and i get it on naturaly asperated cars, turbo cars though is kind of confusing to me so if someone could go over it quickly it would be great. So if it has higher compression ratio that means the turbo will spool up quickly compaired to a lower compression, however does that mean this limits the psi the turbo can put into the engine? Also when just driving around with the turbo at 0psi does this mean ther is a little more horse power because of the higher compression ratio, is this real noticable?

If you find out if there is a difference in the cam that would be great.

For the head I am guessing it would be easier to just modify the head I already have. Just put in more agressive cams in it. The 1G head is a good head and even has bigger ports then the 2G still it would be great to compair it to an evo. I am very curious to see the difference.

so if it was an easy bolt in that must mean the engine mounts are pretty close or the same. are you running the evo computer or the 2G computer?

Can someone post a website where they are selling Evo III motors?

O yeah what color was the valve cover?

 

[JOEY A]

Please call up Adam at DEVO TUNING they have imported Evos and there are 2-3 EVO3s running around chicago land area.

From what Adam told me, the EVO3 uses 9:1 compression and the pistons are better than 2Gs. Also Devo has said the EVO3 intake manifold flow a little bit better than a 1G. You need to call them dont listen to Online BS.(Not direacted towards anyone) DEVO is were all you qeustions and answered can be answered.

Please take my advice and call devotuning, they have a website but there not really a online type of shop there personal etc....Very very good shop and they deal with rally cars etc

 

[GVR4592]

The Evo 3 won't bolt into a 1g, it uses the same style mounts as a 2g. Not that it isn't possible, it just doesn't bolt in. They don't get crankwalk like our 2g cars do.

New pistons would be almost impossible to find. Higher compression won't spool the turbo any faster. It will give you more torque throughout the powerband and it can limit the amount of boost you run depending on your tuning capabilities and the details of your engine build.

I don't know how much the stock shortblock can handle but I would imagine it wouldn't be much more than a stock 1g shortblock.

The cylinder head is more along the lines of the 2g head.

It's not worth the cost to buy a used Evo 3 engine, you can get a rebuilt shortblock with 2g pistons for cheaper. Or you could buy a short block with forged internals for a few hundred more than an Evo3 engine.

There is a difference in the cams, they have a little more lift and duration for increased top end performance.

You couldn't run an Evo ecu without a bit of wiring, even then there are no advantages to it. It is tuned for higher octane fuel and would probably cause damage to the engine with the lower octane fuel we have available in the U.S.

The valvecover is a titanium color

 

[98evoIIIpwr]

I am running a 95eprom ecu and dsmlink with my evo motor. Like he said above ^^^ it drops into a 2g but not a 1g. I havent heard any rumours about the evo motor crankwalking. I am still a little confused as to why people say that the evo head is comparable to a 2g and not better then a 1g. I know for a fact that the exhaust ports are bigger on the evo head. Someone above said that the intake manifold is better then the 1g also. Assuming this I would think that the evo has bigger intake ports also. With this said the head should be better especially considering the evo has better cams. I have to get off of my lazy ass and take the intake mani off and compare not only the mani's but the ports on the heads also. I have a 1g, 2g and evo3 head to look at same with the intake mani's. as my bro in law says im a rolling chassis away from 2 more cars. I have parts every where. Anyhow. I will be finally putting my car back together this weekend so maybe Ill pull that mani off and take a look see. I just dont know if my curiousity is worth the work and a new gasket. And yeah my valve cover was a greyish titanium color.

The fuel rail on the evo motor is a heck of a lot lighter then the 2g and the 1g it also seems to be a slight bit larger. Ill have to measure those also.

so much to do so little time.

to be continued........

 

[Red Handed]

man, I was JUST trying to research the same thing, (about the intake mani ports...) can't wait to see what you come up with, I'm sure there are a few others curious about that too...

 

[4BangR-x]

I actually did see a white evo 3 in Chicago about a month ago. Old asian guy driving it...

 

[Andrew7DG]

Ok Now I am doing research on this more and found out something kind of interesting that I didn't even think about or even consider.

Can a mitsubishi Mirage be turned into an evo?

I didn't think they were quite the same car untill you look at the back end of an evo and a mirage then I went on to car domain and found this!

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/286651


http://www.cardomain.com/ride/642406

So people aren't importing them, they are making them?!WTF

If this can be done let me know!! I think I am going to try it.


It would take a complete rebuild of the whole car to get the AWD system but when you are done it would be an early evo and something different to drive around

the question I have is would the suspension be the same?

what do you guys think?

 

[Andrew7DG]

Hey just out of curriosity does anyone know if an EVO I,II,III transmission is the same as the ones on our dsm or a galant VR-4. how about rear ends? I am trying to figure out if I can get all the parts here and do minimum importing of parts as possible to save on cost. However I know this is going to be an expensive project anyway.

 

[nightspeed87]

escpecially converting it to awd. Youd be better off just sticking with your gsx and taking some evo parts to it. Unless you have that kind of money.

 

[Killa_dsm]

So does that mean that Evo3 cams are an upgrade for a 2g? I can get a set for pretty cheap, so I would like to know.

Edit: Will the Evo1~3 brakes work on our cars? They look like GSX brakes, but I'm not sure.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Very interesting topic. I've always wanted an Evo III too.

Someone in my area has a Mirage with a 4G63 and Evo III body work and badges, I just saw it at the dyno a few weeks ago. It is however still FWD. Looks awsome though, I couldn't tell the difference from the outside until I started talking to the guy. So I'm sure it can be done with enough money. Even making it AWD shouldn't be too hard right? Both cars are built on the same platform so the Mirage should support AWD. I'd like to see it done!

 

[EclipseTrbo420A]

Ok guys, I have a quick one. Will an EVO VIII (8) manifold bolt up to a 1g/2g head? I know its the same motor code, but anything goes wiht mitsu haha. Thats all I need to know. Thanks. -Matt

 

[98evoIIIpwr]

Ok guys, I have a quick one. Will an EVO VIII (8) manifold bolt up to a 1g/2g head? I know its the same motor code, but anything goes wiht mitsu haha. Thats all I need to know. Thanks. -Matt

You can make everything work..... As far as a direct bolt on... No it wouldnt. Your best bet is to go with an evo III and be done.

 

[98evoIIIpwr]

Ok I took the intake manifold off to compare ports. By far the evo is the biggest. Whoever said the evo had a horrible (2nd gen like) intake manifold is way wrong. I have to take some pics and get them up. Im going to be upgrading to a SMIM soon so I will have to take it off again. Hopefully then I can get some pics. But just for the record the evo intake mani. is the best of the three. FYI people.

 

[Killa_dsm]

Ok I took the intake manifold off to compare ports. By far the evo is the biggest. Whoever said the evo had a horrible (2nd gen like) intake manifold is way wrong. I have to take some pics and get them up. Im going to be upgrading to a SMIM soon so I will have to take it off again. Hopefully then I can get some pics. But just for the record the evo intake mani. is the best of the three. FYI people.

Are you talking about the EvoIII intake mani?

 

[timm98gst]

here's some good evo info
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/features/0304scc_mitsubishi_lancer_history/

 

[98evoIIIpwr]

Are you talking about the EvoIII intake mani?

Thats a big 10-4 buddy... Actually quite a bit bigger.

 

[Red Handed]

Thats a big 10-4 buddy... Actually quite a bit bigger.

sweet, props.