evo 16 out flows big/small16/18gauge/t28/big28/fp2544...

[Groomz]

Originally posted by cait sith
How is that an exception? It's called PROPER TUNING.

Christ. I swear 90% of turbo DSM owners couldn't tune their way out of a paper bag with all the tools in the world.

The DSM world isn't learning much about tuning from internet standups such as yourself.

As for the 34mm flapper, I would focus more on other parts of the car, such as having a right sized exhaust and proper porting. Many have installed the 34mm flapper and it has not solved their problems.

Originally posted by leet
Tuning is more intricate that just pushing buttons, 14.5 Drift.

Please tell us then. If DSMers are so oblivious to tuning, then we need all the help we can get. Start giving.

 

[candela]

I agree with Groomz...

However I think the 24mm is worthwhile if you are going to be running less than say 18psi. I also agree that the differences in the turbo's most will never see. Typically people do not ever max out their turbo's, but instead upgrade (unfortunately it susually because of what they hear about it only) to larger turbo's.

small, big, evo... doesnt matter to me. I like them all... personally Id rather go with a small 16 since they can be had for like $400 or $430 new (something like that), you can use the other $200-$400 (2G) on other crap. Thats just me though.. I also have not had time with an Evo 16g so I cannot speak from experience (just small, big, super and killer).

As said before you can EASILY make a custom install kit dropping the price closer to $100 by using 1G/home depot parts. Anyone interested search and/or PM me.

T28's and 16G are both very capable turbo's. T28's haven't nearly as much widespread use as the 16g in the Mitsu world... but in other worlds (nissan) it has gone very far. I know from experience as well....

 

[yo2001]

My EVOIII now spools from 2800 rpm or maybe before and have full boost (20psi) well before 4000rpm (can't watch the tach when the boost hits. ), it's almost like driving my other stock 14B car.

the creeping is an issue on low boost. Mine never help 10 psi -15psi. at 18 psi it finally stablized. That's what happens with ported 2G mani, ported turbo, 3 inch DP and no porting done on WG. :thumbdown

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

Originally posted by Groomz
The DSM world isn't learning much about tuning from internet standups such as yourself.

I totally agree... With a BigT28 or any 16G, you are in good hands. I've got a Small16 and couldn't be happier. A friend of mine had a T28 and decided to sell it for a 52 trim that he can't tune for shit (not that he is the smartest whip in the torture chamber either) when the T28 could have put him the 12's.

 

[dsmturboawd]

Originally posted by 14.5 drift
Wtf is tuning so hard? Correct your fuel, adjust your timing and badabing, your all done. You are only limited to your equipment I mean for crying out loud your dsmlink comes with directions. Your super afc comes with directions and has like 2 bottons on the hole freakin unit. With every thing working perfectly (no leaks, no squeaks etc.) You can tune like 30 hp give or take, unless your car is running like 19367 timing what the hell else can you do?

you couldnt base tune a vehicle to save your life.

 

[leet]

Originally posted by Groomz
Please tell us then. If DSMers are so oblivious to tuning, then we need all the help we can get. Start giving.

Easy, Groomz. I'm just letting the guy know what he's getting into. I didn't attack him. You know I do my best to help people out on here.

Mike

 

[CanadianTSi]

Originally posted by 14.5 drift
Wtf is tuning so hard? Correct your fuel, adjust your timing and badabing, your all done. You are only limited to your equipment I mean for crying out loud your dsmlink comes with directions. Your super afc comes with directions and has like 2 bottons on the hole freakin unit. With every thing working perfectly (no leaks, no squeaks etc.) You can tune like 30 hp give or take, unless your car is running like 19367 timing what the hell else can you do?

WOW it's obvious you have no idea what you're talking about

 

[dsmturboawd]

he never does, you should see his other threads. rather than asking questions, he makes rediclous statements and attempts to pass them as factual.

 

[14.5 drift]

Originally posted by dsmturboawd
he never does, you should see his other threads. rather than asking questions, he makes rediclous statements and attempts to pass them as factual.

Can always count on you for a snide response with no point. What is tuning in your opinion? Just curious. Dont be " like me" and make hollow statement, get to the freakin point already. What else can be done other than have a good understanding of the programs your equipment is capable of running. Tell me how to tune a car other than fuel and timing. If you can not respond with an answer you your self must be full of shit yourself.

If any body else has a logical response please researve it until dsmturboawd comes back with his half brained attempt at a reply. So far the only claims you make are that others (me) are ill informed but have failed to back any implications with experience or hands on experience on the matter. I will wait patiently for an intelligent response from you dsmturboawd.

 

[14.5 drift]

chances are you will wait for some body with some real knowledge to agree with and then include yourself like you think you know some thing. Bs. You are full of shit dude.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Originally posted by ItsStockOfficer
more then 48. 48 is on the outside edge of the 50 trims effciency island...44 lb's is almost in another country on a 16g map.

How do you know that when you have never seen the map for an Evo III 16G?

 

[ShapeGSX]

Originally posted by Groomz
Evo III 16G ported - 620$ from SBR
Install kit - 200$ from Turbochargers.com

I don't think there is any reason to NOT get creative with the "install kit." And you need to replace the oil line with a new one no matter what turbo you bolt on.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Originally posted by nanokpsi
Don't forget to add the 34mm flapper mod to the evo III, along with a clip if you want to get the most out of it. IMO you won't be able to tell a difference between any of the 16gs or a big t28 untill you are appraoching the max for any of these turbos.

I wouldn't add the flapper or get it clipped.

My turbo is unported, and unclipped. Though I do get some boost creep, I am not going to reduce the ability of my turbo to hold high boost.

Incidentally, that 118mph run was a complete accident. It was my first pass of the day, I tuned the car rather conservatively, but I turned the boost up much higher than I had expected. I actually maxed out my 3-bar sensor with the boost spike, which led to some pretty bad knock retard. I'll be experimenting more with it this year, with proper tuning. I think if I can lessen the spike, I'll be in good shape. Either way, the car definitely wasn't running in tip-top shape on that pass.

As I said, a complete accident, but a good one for sure!

 

[ShapeGSX]

Originally posted by nanokpsi
Don't forget to add the 34mm flapper mod to the evo III, along with a clip if you want to get the most out of it. IMO you won't be able to tell a difference between any of the 16gs or a big t28 untill you are appraoching the max for any of these turbos.

I wouldn't add the flapper or get it clipped.

My turbo is unported, and unclipped. Though I do get some boost creep, I am not going to reduce the ability of my turbo to hold high boost.

Incidentally, that 118mph run was a complete accident. It was my first pass of the day, I tuned the car rather conservatively, but I turned the boost up much higher than I had expected. I actually maxed out my 3-bar sensor with the boost spike, which led to some pretty bad knock retard. I'll be experimenting more with it this year, with proper tuning. I think if I can lessen the spike, I'll be in good shape. Either way, the car definitely wasn't running in tip-top shape on that pass.

As I said, a complete accident, but a good one for sure!

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by leet
Easy, Groomz. I'm just letting the guy know what he's getting into. I didn't attack him. You know I do my best to help people out on here.

Mike

I know. Just getting my rant on.

 

[Groomz]

Originally posted by ShapeGSX
I don't think there is any reason to NOT get creative with the "install kit." And you need to replace the oil line with a new one no matter what turbo you bolt on.

I think I made a good choice switching to the Evo III, but the inner DSMer in me wants to waste some money. Al least I moved away from the 50 trim. Too much turbo for me.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by ShapeGSX
How do you know that when you have never seen the map for an Evo III 16G?

True, as far as it goes, but its the same comp housing and about a thumbnails width bigger on the inducer with the same size exducer, so its prolly close to the reg 16g.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Originally posted by ItsStockOfficer
True, as far as it goes, but its the same comp housing and about a thumbnails width bigger on the inducer with the same size exducer, so its prolly close to the reg 16g.

The shank is smaller on the Evo 16G, which gives it a larger effective inlet area without having to increase the inducer diameter. The shank (piece that goes over the axle) does not flow any air, so the smaller you can make it, the more airflow you can get, WITHOUT adding mass to the compressor!

As well, the compressor wheel is lighter than a Big 16G's compressor wheel. And while I don't know how that affects a compressor map, I have to believe that it DOES affect a compressor map.

 

[ItsStockOfficer]

Originally posted by ShapeGSX
The shank is smaller on the Evo 16G, which gives it a larger effective inlet area without having to increase the inducer diameter. The shank (piece that goes over the axle) does not flow any air, so the smaller you can make it, the more airflow you can get, WITHOUT adding mass to the compressor!

As well, the compressor wheel is lighter than a Big 16G's compressor wheel. And while I don't know how that affects a compressor map, I have to believe that it DOES affect a compressor map.

Both true! I am merely pointing out that going from a turbo with a ~2.68 inch exducer to a 3 inch exducer, tuning for tuning, I think you could get more than an additional 4 lb/min... I certainly do not mean it as an insult to your turbo, but people have trapped 130 MPH opn 50 trims, probably getting in the mid 50's.

 

[ShapeGSX]

Originally posted by ItsStockOfficer
Both true! I am merely pointing out that going from a turbo with a ~2.68 inch exducer to a 3 inch exducer, tuning for tuning, I think you could get more than an additional 4 lb/min... I certainly do not mean it as an insult to your turbo, but people have trapped 130 MPH opn 50 trims, probably getting in the mid 50's.

Oh, believe me, I know that there is no way that my turbo maxed out will flow nearly as much as a 50 trim maxed out.

 

[coltboostin]

Speaking of compressor maps...
The peak efficiency island on the map of the small 16g is much fatter than that os a big 16g, that is why I went with a small 16g, witch I then ported and clipped. I havent seen the compressor map for the Evo III, but I cant understand how it could be that much bigger than the big.
In my humble opinion, the Big16g wheel is on the verge of too large for the tdo5h compressor housing, hence its relative ineficience. This is why the sleeper 20g turbo's are 1000$ peices of junk. They blow hot air from 10psi on!
For 14.5..
You have the basic idea for tunning, but it does go a bit beyond fuel..check. Timing...check. Injector pulse width and other things come into ply, but you will find it out soon enough. once you figure it out, it will be second hand.

Oh and if I trap at 120mph+ on my small 16g does that count too?

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

Originally posted by coltboostin
Speaking of compressor maps...
The peak efficiency island on the map of the small 16g is much fatter than that os a big 16g, that is why I went with a small 16g, witch I then ported and clipped. I havent seen the compressor map for the Evo III, but I cant understand how it could be that much bigger than the big.
In my humble opinion, the Big16g wheel is on the verge of too large for the tdo5h compressor housing, hence its relative ineficience. This is why the sleeper 20g turbo's are 1000$ peices of junk. They blow hot air from 10psi on!
For 14.5..
You have the basic idea for tunning, but it does go a bit beyond fuel..check. Timing...check. Injector pulse width and other things come into ply, but you will find it out soon enough. once you figure it out, it will be second hand.

Oh and if I trap at 120mph+ on my small 16g does that count too?

Besdies the flow advantages of the Evo3, it also has architectural enhancements... Bolts better to the Evo manifold and o2 housing. The turbine housing of the turbo is made of better materials (nickel parhaps?) and is less prone to crack. It is also lighter as well. For anyone buying a 16G I will always say to get the Evo3... No brainer IMO...

 

[coltboostin]

yeah, I got the 16g befor this Evo crazy everyone is on, I probably would have got and EvoIII it to b/c it is so cheap. I still would like to see a compressor map for it, thats what I commented on. That light nickel rich housing isnt gonna help the flow of the turbo, which makes the power and is the real consern when buying a turbo

 

[dsmturboawd]

Originally posted by 14.5 drift
Can always count on you for a snide response with no point. What is tuning in your opinion? Just curious. Dont be " like me" and make hollow statement, get to the freakin point already. What else can be done other than have a good understanding of the programs your equipment is capable of running. Tell me how to tune a car other than fuel and timing. If you can not respond with an answer you your self must be full of shit yourself.

If any body else has a logical response please researve it until dsmturboawd comes back with his half brained attempt at a reply. So far the only claims you make are that others (me) are ill informed but have failed to back any implications with experience or hands on experience on the matter. I will wait patiently for an intelligent response from you dsmturboawd.

im not going to sit here and type out a fucking book on how to tune. if you want to know, go read and research.

quit posting incorrect comments and attemping to pass them as the truth. you obviously dont know how to tune a vehicle, yet you compose a post about how one does so. have you even ever touched a safc? for weeks ive been reading your dumb comments such as "the evo and the dsm motors are the exact same" and "wtf is so hard about tuning, just adjust your fuel and read the safc instructions", yet you sitting here questioning my tuning capabilities like im some no0b or something. get a clue.

f43g.

 

[RuBiCaNT5X]

Originally posted by coltboostin
yeah, I got the 16g befor this Evo crazy everyone is on, I probably would have got and EvoIII it to b/c it is so cheap. I still would like to see a compressor map for it, thats what I commented on. That light nickel rich housing isnt gonna help the flow of the turbo, which makes the power and is the real consern when buying a turbo

Very true, my point was not about performance but in addition to the performance it is a more durable turbo.