Ethanol + MAFT + 1680cc/min

[luizdiefenbach]

Well, my car is a 1G Gsx, I bought a MAFT and I'm thinking in running this setup, please remeber that i will be running Ethanol and NOT Methanol....

1680cc/min (@43.5psi) bosch injectors with 30psi base pressure (so they flow 1400cc/min)to run with ethanol...
Ethanol needs 68% more volume than gas so 1400cc on ethanol is like 830cc on gas.... (830cc/min + 68% = 1400cc/min)

You think this could work ( at least until I get the 1G dsmlink) ? I think I will set the the MAFT BASE like this: AUX=2 (dsm eclipse 1G) BASE=A (830cc/min) , what do you think??

I know is this was on gas I will get a lot of timing but since im running ethanol I think its all good... (~100 octane rating) Do you think I will have too much timing or it will be good for ethanol?
should I turn up my base timing (via CAS) for ethanol too?

the fuel pressure wont be too low on idle for a good spray pattern???

any input is apreciated, I really don't want to buy the injectors and find out that I can't run them....

thanks and sorry for my bad english...

PS. I live in brazil and we have pure ethanol on pumps here.... (and much cheaper than gas) thats why the ethanol crazy stuff....

 

[MNGSX]

Well, my car is a 1G Gsx, I bought a MAFT and I'm thinking in running this setup, please remeber that i will be running Ethanol and NOT Methanol....

1680cc/min (@43.5psi) bosch injectors with 30psi base pressure (so they flow 1400cc/min)to run with ethanol...
Ethanol needs 68% more volume than gas so 1400cc on ethanol is like 830cc on gas.... (830cc/min + 68% = 1400cc/min)

You think this could work ( at least until I get the 1G dsmlink) ? I think I will set the the MAFT BASE like this: AUX=2 (dsm eclipse 1G) BASE=A (830cc/min) , what do you think??

I know is this was on gas I will get a lot of timing but since im running ethanol I think its all good... (~100 octane rating) Do you think I will have too much timing or it will be good for ethanol?
should I turn up my base timing (via CAS) for ethanol too?

the fuel pressure wont be too low on idle for a good spray pattern???

any input is apreciated, I really don't want to buy the injectors and find out that I can't run them....

thanks and sorry for my bad english...

PS. I live in brazil and we have pure ethanol on pumps here.... (and much cheaper than gas) thats why the ethanol crazy stuff....

It probably depends on which injectors.. How fast they fire.. Something like lucas disk or something could work. I dont think it would idle with just the maft and bosch 1680s they are fast for a pintle injector their size but still not that fast.

 

[Mirage2LTurbo]

On my PT67 setup on 2 bar with 33psi base on my 1680's, I'm hitting 54% duty cycle. You need to run more base pressure or you're not going to be able to double the fuel needed for methanol.. Unless you're on a smaller turbo that is.

 

[MNGSX]

you're not going to be able to double the fuel needed for methanol.. .

Umm read his first post...

please remeber that i will be running Ethanol and NOT Methanol....

1680cc is plenty.. It's like running 1000cc gas injectors.. I run the bosch and have a MAFT too but I don't think it will run with just that. I have never ran the big injectors w/o an EMS system.. I really dont think it is possible due to the injector dead time to do it with a set bosch.. I got them for about $160 for four of them.. I'm looking at lucas disk injectors due to their faster open time.. .8 ms as compaired to the bosch 1.5ms.

Hold off untill you get the ECU..

I wish I had 98%ETHanol here. We have 85% available..

 

[luizdiefenbach]

1680cc is plenty.. It's like running 1000cc gas injectors..

thats why I want to lower the pressure... so my 1680 will be like 1400cc (and like 830cc/min for gas) I hope this will help on the timing a little...

I run the bosch and have a MAFT too but I don't think it will run with just that. I have never ran the big injectors w/o an EMS system.. I really dont think it is possible due to the injector dead time to do it with a set bosch.. I got them for about $160 for four of them.. I'm looking at lucas disk injectors due to their faster open time.. .8 ms as compaired to the bosch 1.5ms.

Where did you get them??? please tell me.... $160 is a good price...
Well I think I will try them... if does not work I will have to wait my DSMlink to install them...

I wish I had 98%ETHanol here. We have 85% available..

Its called E85, right?


thanks for the aswer

 

[MNGSX]

thats why I want to lower the pressure... so my 1680 will be like 1400cc (and like 830cc/min for gas) I hope this will help on the timing a little...


Where did you get them??? please tell me.... $160 is a good price...
Well I think I will try them... if does not work I will have to wait my DSMlink to install them...



Its called E85, right?


thanks for the aswer

With the near 100% mix.. I think yours is 98% too.. I can get it here but not at the pumps. 2% denatured to keep the alkys from filling themselves up at the pump.

I dont think droping the fuel pressure will help.. The injectors still operate the same as far as cycle time. I'd get the link and run them at normal specs.. I have run the 98% mix on a pro-efi with 1680's at stock base pressure.. It actually idles better with the 98% because you are'nt asking the injectors to meter out the minimum they can like gas or the E85. If you can hold your horses untill you get a link ECU I think you will be very happy.

What do you have for a fuel system? You are going to have to upsize the pump quite a bit.

http://www.fiveomotorsport.com/Injector_Sets.asp

They are the same as a CNG Crown Victoria or a Dodge V8 CNG....

 

[MNGSX]

Oh and you are better off telling them what you need via email because they don't have them listed but they do have them..

 

[luizdiefenbach]

I'm running a walbro 255lhp HP, but i will put a second walbro in 8AN lines... this will do the trick...

 

[GSX_RCR]

I'm running a walbro 255lhp HP, but i will put a second walbro in 8AN lines... this will do the trick...

I was just about to comment on that...

I second the notion to hold off until you can get an adequate EMS. I haven't heard of anyone successfully running anything larger than 1000cc injectors on the MAFT. Is this going to be a dedicated track car?....if so, screw getting it to idle!

 

[MNGSX]

I'm running a walbro 255lhp HP, but i will put a second walbro in 8AN lines... this will do the trick...

Depending on the power level maybe.

I'm running a SX pump and will probably need a second one. I'm doing a split fuel rail so it would be one pump per 2 injectors.

 

[luizdiefenbach]

450-500 whp on ethanol
2 walbros will good enough for this.

NEWS: I got 1g dsmlink... but I will try to run just on the MAFT (just to know if it would work or not) and I will post here the results....


thanks to all

 

[MNGSX]

IMHO that still may not cut it. If you want to run intank pumps I'd run denso's.. I'd run them parallel.

It depends on power and boost pressure since it is a 1-1 reference and pump output in GPM drops on any electric pump as RPM's increase.

Just calculate the flowrate at peak pressure...

People do alright with the walbros and they are cheap but I'd look at a denso pump.

The "supra" pump people run is a denso but they make some that are smaller. Depends on what you are doing.. The densos are just a higher quality pump. Just look at the graph of denso pumps flow rates.'

There is some rewire info there too.

3S site http://www.stealth316.com/2-fuelpumpguide.htm

With mine I did the return line to bucket test and looked at how much fuel I was getting with one and realized on the next build up it would be leaning out so I'd need two..

See how the walbro drops off hard at higher pressures while the denso's taper off slower!

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[luizdiefenbach]

dual rewired walbros 255 lhp HP in parallel = ~7.3 liter/minute @ 73 psi / 8.8liters/minute @ 43 psi
1680cc/min @ 43.5 psi X 4 = 6.72 liters/minute

way more than enough for my 450-500 whp goal...

and problably i will run like 30 psi base fuel pressure so I will get smaller injectors and higher flows on pumps.

oh and its cheap: 2 walbros = 180-190 USD

PS. I already have an walbro 255 HP...

but thanks for the worry