2G EGR Solenoid Not Working?

[Artago]

Hey all. I've been testing my emissions system because I failed emissions control test twice and I've run into a bit of a curve ball.

So I followed the Haynes repair manual for testing the EGR solenoid which goes as follows:

1. Disconnect the electrical connector from the EGR solenoid.
2. Connect a Vacuum pump to the top port of the EGR solenoid. (This port is normally connected to the "E" port on the throttle body)
3. Attempt to apply 15 HG of vacuum to the EGR solenoid.
4. NO VACUUM SHOULD DEVELOP. If vacuum develops and holds, replace the solenoid.
5. Apply a 12V current to the EGR solenoid.
6. Attempt to apply 15 HG of vacuum to the EGR solenoid.
7. 15 HG OF VACUUM SHOULD DEVELOP AND HOLD. If vacuum doesn't doesn't develop or hold, replace the solenoid.

Ok so I preformed the test and with no voltage applied the EGR solenoid HELD 15 HG of vac, hence failing Step #4. Then I applied 12V and applied 15 HG of vac, and no vacuum developed, hence failing Step #7.

So the EGR solenoid functioned BACKWARDS, hold vac when it shouldn't and NOT holding vacuum when it should.

My questions: Is this normal? If so then the test procedure in the book is wrong. OR is the test procedure correct and if it is, is my EGR solenoid faulty.

Second question: I tested the resistance across the EGR solenoid terminals and measured 67 Ohms. According to a test procedure I found online (not the book), the resistance should read between 36-46 Ohms. So my question is, what should be the resistance across the EGR solenoid terminals?

Sorry about the long post and thanks for any and all help.

Tom.

 

[DSMunknown]

Did you have the code read yet? Get that done first. No use in testing this and that if you're just shooting in the dark. Get the exact code. Then click here to read up on a possible fix.

 

[Artago]

Did you have the code read yet? Get that done first. No use in testing this and that if you're just shooting in the dark. Get the exact code. Then click here to read up on a possible fix.

No CEL light and No CEL codes. I have an ODBII scan tool and checked. The car runs, but it failed emissons so I'm checking all the emissions equipment and according to the test in the Haynes repair manual, my car's EGR solenoid failed. So basically I'm asking if anyone can confirm if the EGR solenoid test in the Haynes Repair Manual is the correct one. If no, does anyone knows the proper way to test the EGR.


In the thread you linked to me... in the end it was your CPU that was bad and you had to replace it? Ouch.

 

[luv2rallye]

Your EGR solenoid is working properly. The Haynes proceedure is incorrect (as is a lot of their stuff). Here is the test proceedure right out of the real factory 99 Mitsubishi Eclipse manual. Also notice the coil resistance should be 62-74 ohms (36-44 is from the 1g manual).

 

[Artago]

Your EGR solenoid is working properly. The Haynes proceedure is incorrect (as is a lot of their stuff). Here is the test proceedure right out of the real factory 99 Mitsubishi Eclipse manual. Also notice the coil resistance should be 62-74 ohms (36-44 is from the 1g manual).

Awesome!!!!!!! That's what I wanted to hear. One more quick question. "Normal Condition" refers to nipple A?

Thanks.

 

[luv2rallye]

Yes - the vacuum in the test hose connected to A. With no voltage, the valve between A and B should be closed with no leaks so vacuum is maintained in A. With voltage, the valve between A and B should be open so if B is open it lets air in so vacuum cannot be maintained in A. [With B closed (eg. like your thumb over it) air cannot get in B so vacuum should be maintained in A even though valve is open - ie. there are no leaks from other sources like a cracked housing].

 

[Artago]

Yes - the vacuum in the test hose connected to A. With no voltage, the valve between A and B should be closed with no leaks so vacuum is maintained in A. With voltage, the valve between A and B should be open so if B is open it lets air in so vacuum cannot be maintained in A. [With B closed (eg. like your thumb over it) air cannot get in B so vacuum should be maintained in A even though valve is open - ie. there are no leaks from other sources like a cracked housing].

Thanks, that helps a lot. According to your post I've determined that the EGR solenoid is functioning correctly. Unfortunately I have to keep trouble shooting. Next thing I have to test is the EGR solenoid circuitry and the EGR valve. Thanks, a bunch.

 

[Avionixx]

What exactly did you fail for?

 

[Artago]

What exactly did you fail for?

CO HC and NOx

 

[Artago]

Yes - the vacuum in the test hose connected to A. With no voltage, the valve between A and B should be closed with no leaks so vacuum is maintained in A. With voltage, the valve between A and B should be open so if B is open it lets air in so vacuum cannot be maintained in A. [With B closed (eg. like your thumb over it) air cannot get in B so vacuum should be maintained in A even though valve is open - ie. there are no leaks from other sources like a cracked housing].

Quick question. Nipple C goes to the EGR valve, correct? If I want to test the EGR valve I should connect a vac pump to the HOSE that connects to nipple C and apply vacuum, correct? The EGR valve hose should hold vac up to 15 HG/in, correct?

If all of this is wrong (which it most likely is), then how do I test the EGR valve?

Thanks,

Tom

 

[jake247]

CO HC and NOx

I'm assuming that this is from a "sniffer" type test- a probe up your exhaust pipe.

that sounds more like a catalytic converter type thing. I thought the egr was for idle type stuff. I'd lead towards the upstream o2 sensor, and the cat being old.

Edit: spoke wrong, egr is partial throttle, like when you're going down the highway. anyway egr doesn't make it burn those gases better, it just makes them go through the engine a second time.

 

[Avionixx]

Cats dont exactly go bad with a properly running engine and getting a new cat is simply a band-aid if his emissions equipment really isn't functioning as intended. EGR is directly related to NOx, however, so if he's passing the legal limits handily, common sense would tell you to check the EGR as well.

 

[luv2rallye]

EGR Valve test 2g (from 99 Mitsu Eclipse factory manual):

 

[Artago]

I'm assuming that this is from a "sniffer" type test- a probe up your exhaust pipe.

that sounds more like a catalytic converter type thing. I thought the egr was for idle type stuff. I'd lead towards the upstream o2 sensor, and the cat being old.

Edit: spoke wrong, egr is partial throttle, like when you're going down the highway. anyway egr doesn't make it burn those gases better, it just makes them go through the engine a second time.

Yup.. it's a sniffer test under load. I have a BRAND new Magnaflow 3" catalytic conveter (although the test was taken with a brand new OBX "hi-flow" cat which had a much smaller and less dense core).

Both O2 sensors are brand new Denso sensors.

 

[Artago]

Cats dont exactly go bad with a properly running engine and getting a new cat is simply a band-aid if his emissions equipment really isn't functioning as intended. EGR is directly related to NOx, however, so if he's passing the legal limits handily, common sense would tell you to check the EGR as well.

Yup, EGR is related to NOx. I'm failing on all three CO HO and NOx, although I passed the NOx 1 out of 2 times.

So I'm checking all the emissions systems. So far I have found nothing wrong except a couple boost leaks (which I fixed) and a malfunctioning ISC (IAC), which I replaced.

My motor has less than 300 miles since it was built.

I'm starting the think my timing or cam shaft/gears are off because I have poor idle with only 12 HG/in of vacuum. The motor has BC 272's.

 

[Artago]

EGR Valve test 2g (from 99 Mitsu Eclipse factory manual):

Thanks, Where do you get these pictures of the manual? I could use something like that

 

[DSMunknown]

Thanks, Where do you get these pictures of the manual? I could use something like that

Probably from the DSM Backup CD Manual. You can buy one here.

 

[asexton6969]

If your egr solenoid hadn't been working then you would've had a check engine light on. As far as the emissions, sorry that I can't provide you an answer. I live where you don't have to deal with emissions. I however, did have a friend with an OBX cat that failed everytime. He replaced it with a name brand catalytic converter (unknown make) and he passed. I wouldn't press for it to have been an underfunctioning CC.

 

[Artago]

If your egr solenoid hadn't been working then you would've had a check engine light on. As far as the emissions, sorry that I can't provide you an answer. I live where you don't have to deal with emissions. I however, did have a friend with an OBX cat that failed everytime. He replaced it with a name brand catalytic converter (unknown make) and he passed. I wouldn't press for it to have been an underfunctioning CC.

Yeah I think so too. You can noticeably see the difference between the OBX cat and the Magnaflow cat I just put on. I'll try for EC again and see if I pass. I'll post back.

 

[luv2rallye]

Thanks, Where do you get these pictures of the manual? I could use something like that

I have the real Mitsu factory manual (hardcopy) and just scan one in when needed. The DSM Backup Manual CD ones are too blurry.

 

[Artago]

I have the real Mitsu factory manual (hardcopy) and just scan one in when needed. The DSM Backup Manual CD ones are too blurry.

Sweet. Thanks for scanning in a page for me.

 

[Mike_GST]

I have a 1998 GST and my EGR valve has 2 nipples. I applied vacuum to the top one and it holded 20inHg but the bottom one can't hold any. What should I expect or how should I test the second nipple? What is that for?

Sometimes my car accelerates very slow when I go from partial throttle to WOT, like a ton rock was attached to it. But as soon as I release the right pedal and press it again, the problem goes away, just like that. I got suspicious about the EGR system.

My car doesn't show any CEL (I scaned it), idles ok, no boost leaks from turbo to intake, BOV, TB or injectors. Got injectors cleaned and spray tested too. Replaced plugs, wires, tested power transistor, coils... everything's looks ok!