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dsm link question, is it worth it?

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talontsi3

15+ Year Contributor
68
0
Jul 4, 2006
keene, New_Hampshire
Hey guys,
I have been reading up on dsm link but I still have some questions about it, Do you need a lap top to tune at all times? How much harder is it to use than the safc2?
I am going to go with evo 16G the safc2 550’s and a 190. But I am still curious if dsm link will benefit me. If I went with dsm link I would run 650’s and a 255 fp. I only want to be within 300-350. I don’t mind saving up more if it will be worth it. Thanks again.
alex-
 
If you're an actual 'tuner' it's really user friendly. I have it, and I absolutly love it! I can't recomend it enough. As long as you're tuning, yes, you'll need your laptop. However, as soon as you're tune is complete, you don't need to have it with you. Just use it for logging when needed. Go for it!
 
Dsm link is definatly worth it. Remember if you get power you may end up wanting more, then youll have to upgrade again, even tho AFC2 is good up to a bit of power tho. You have to tune with the laptop, but you can un-plug the laptop and drive around. It will benefit you, and if you get the 650's and a 255 you'll have room to run a big turbo in the future, but remember with the 255 you will need an AFPR.
-Chad
 
The reason I was leaning more towards the safc at first was because the lack of experience I have with tuning, Is dsm link something that I could read and dick around with and then get a grasp on how to tune properly? Or is learing the bascis with the safc first a good idea?
 
The reason I was leaning more towards the safc at first was because the lack of experience I have with tuning, Is dsm link something that I could read and dick around with and then get a grasp on how to tune properly? Or is learing the bascis with the safc first a good idea?
DSM Link is truely plug-and-play in that as long as you've requested the correct default parameters for Injector Size, RPM, MAF Type, 1G/2G your car will startup and run just as it would stock. The "tuning" part is IMO much easier since DSMLink has an integrated datalogger which shows immediate feedback from the changes you make.

Not to mention it's product support forum (only open to DSMLink owners) is second to none :thumb:

Oh, and you can also use a Palm to program/datalog, but as with a laptop, only needed when making changes to the parameters and/or datalogging :dsm:
 
I went from no tuning experience at all to using DSMLink. The DSMLink forum is one hell of an awsome knowledge base. You dont have to be a master tuner to use DSMLink, thats the beauty of the system. Ontop of that, Tom and Dave (creators of DSMLink) are always available, and always answer questions about it. With out a doubt best customer support.

Go with DSMLink and call it a day. Not that SAFC is bad, but the link is leaps and bounds better. IMO
 
I too am looking into link, I haven't done my due diligence research but I thought I read somewhere that DSM is WOT tuning only? If so could someone please briefly expand on this?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks guys, I thought it was for more experienced tuners,But I guess thats not really the case at all. Also just curious How hard is it to install, Is it something that I could do myself or is something I bring somewhere? Isn't there a site that says the price and stuff? I found it once but don't remember how I got there.
thanks-
 
you can get all the info you need at DSMLink.com
Install is a piece of cake. When you get ## ECU back, you may or may not have to put the chip in it. This is easy, but if you have to do it, make sure you ground yourself to you dont put a static charge threw the ECU or the chip, they dont like that at all. You can go to best buy or any electronics store to get a wrist strap that will ground you when working with electronics.
Putting the ECU in the car requires removeing the drivers side center console panel, and removing 3 screws, and unpluging 4 plugs from the ecu, then it slides out. Do the reverse to put the ecu back. And you cant get the 4 plugs wrong, they will only go in one hole.
You have a 95 so you wont need to swich your plug wires.

Hook up your laptop and your ready to rock and roll.
 
I too am looking into link, I haven’t done my due diligence research but I thought I read somewhere that DSM is WOT tuning only? If so could someone please briefly expand on this?

As stated, with the "default" parameters that would come with DSMLink (injectors, RPM, CAS inversion, etc.) the car will fire up and run "out-of-the-box".

Once installed you will need to "dial-in" you injectors as every car/injector combo is different. Once that is done you don't have to do anything else for "closed-loop" mode (idle/cruise).

After that you will want to tune your WOT settings, which is all you really need to tune anyway.

http://dsmlink.com/faq.html
 
ahh thats clears that up, So I will be looking at 595 plus shipping? Then all I'll need is to get ahold of a lap top and I'm good to go?
 
Someone made the comment that safc is only good to a certain power point just to clear things up safc and dsmlink aren't like turbos they don't have hp ratings. Someone could actually make more hp with a safc and a wideband then someone else with just dsmlink depening on the quality of the tune. The reason that people usualy make more power with dsmlink though is that its easier to see everything on one scrren and adjust then using a logger and safc and to constantly keep corssreferencing then to look at one screen see whatever it is your trying to look out for and adjust using the same program. Now of course the other part is timing controll. In tuning most people seem to find once your car is around the right a/f ratio your looking for the real power comes from timing not the fuel mix. Safc does not have timing controll as of yet and dsmlink has rpm based timig control baased on sliders in +/- 1 degrees of timing. With that said it's worth it in just about everyone who uses it to bite the bullet and get the link.
 
afc's are ok to manage smaller injectors, when you figure the cost of a afc and data logger you are pretty close to the cost of a dsmlink. The differance being, a dsmlink will
log at blazing speeds compaired to dataloggers. You also have all the other funtions you will never have with a s-afc. I could go on and on but i think you get the point.
 
afc's are ok to manage smaller injectors, when you figure the cost of a afc and data logger you are pretty close to the cost of a dsmlink. The differance being, a dsmlink will
log at blazing speeds compaired to dataloggers. You also have all the other funtions you will never have with a s-afc. I could go on and on but i think you get the point.


Yeah that's another thing if you have a setup where your looking to run bigger than 750cc injectors your choice is all but made for you as safc has the piggy back tunning affect(tells the ecu there is less air so it uses less fuel = more aggressive and advance timing) which will cause all kind of problems with tuning.
 
dave99gst said:
afc's are ok to manage smaller injectors, when you figure the cost of a afc and data logger you are pretty close to the cost of a dsmlink

AFC+datalogger is not even close to the price of dsmlink. $150 for safc, $80 for a logger, I would say is way cheaper. With your goals the SAFC will be good enough.

To run dsmlink to the fullest a gm maf, and maf-t would be nice. So dsmlink-565, maf-t-200 or more, and a gm maf. Damn thats almost near the price of AEM.

If I was you I would go with the SAFC unless you feel you will be wanting more hp in the future. I dont see why you should spend 600 to get to your HP mark. A cheap safc will work fine.
 
AFC+datalogger is not even close to the price of dsmlink. $150 for safc, $80 for a logger, I would say is way cheaper. With your goals the SAFC will be good enough.

To run dsmlink to the fullest a gm maf, and maf-t would be nice. So dsmlink-565, maf-t-200 or more, and a gm maf. Damn thats almost near the price of AEM.

If I was you I would go with the SAFC unless you feel you will be wanting more hp in the future. I dont see why you should spend 600 to get to your HP mark. A cheap safc will work fine.


Your right but i disagree with you on the gm setup. Most people assume that the gm setup is the way to go with dsmlink I will tell you first hand it can be a HUGE PITA. I just sold my gm setup because when you run the gm setup with dsmlink to get it to run right you have to calibrate the air flow hz in the link settings and to get that right you have to have a wideband or a 3 bar map sensor. I didn't have either and didn't know about calibrating the air flow and the car ran like shit. So I sold the gm setup and pick ed up a evo maf which is on it's way.
 
I understand what your saying completly jay, Thats why I wasn't sure what to do. I dont think I will want a bigger turbo in the future, I still want to have it a daily driver also just with some umph. Also I dont own a lap top so that would make it a litlle hard also. So the safc will be fine for the power goals Im looking at?
thanks
 
$150 for safc, $80 for a logger,
Where do we buy from to get prices like that? Maybe for a 1G it's cheaper but the cheapest OBDII (2G) logger I know of is $125 pocketlogger and that doesn't include the PDA or hotsync cable. Dsmloggers.com has a complete kit for $160, which is the better deal if you don't have a palm device already.

Getting the SAFC 1 off of ebay might be doable for $150, but I'd expect to pay closer to $225 for the better SAFC 2 or maybe more. I'm seeing around $385 or so, if you don't have the palm device and want a SAFC 2. At that point, I'm asking myself why I didn't just spend the extra cash for the Link.
 
I guess the only thing thats making me think, this might sound stupid but I like the idea of being able to look at the safc2 screen and see whats going on, vs having to borrow my buddies lap top. I dont mind spending extra cash if like i said if it will benefit me and be worth it.
 
I understand what your saying completly jay, Thats why I wasn't sure what to do. I dont think I will want a bigger turbo in the future, I still want to have it a daily driver also just with some umph. Also I dont own a lap top so that would make it a litlle hard also. So the safc will be fine for the power goals Im looking at?
thanks

I thought the same thing to and end up now with a 60-1.

Get dsmlink, it comes with WAY more options that are very fun to use and helpful as well. Tuning is made super simple with sliding bars, you can setup a stutterbox, anti-lag, no lift to shift. You have full control over timing/fuel, you can test/run certain things (i found testing my upgraded fuel system much easier with dsmlink since I didnt have to start the car to run the fuel pump) therefor i didnt have to worry about setting the car on fire. It also made overheating (because of my front mount) non-existant.

Also, instead of borrowing a laptop get an old one off of ebay or craigslist or from someone who has an old one. I use to use laptop i got from a friend for 40$, it was a pentium 160MHZ. Worked great.

PS. You can view knock with dsmlink, can't with a pocketlogger.
 
I guess the only thing thats making me think, this might sound stupid but I like the idea of being able to look at the safc2 screen and see whats going on, vs having to borrow my buddies lap top. I dont mind spending extra cash if like i said if it will benefit me and be worth it.


Get a basic nothing special windows 98 lap top. Old lap tops are actually better becuase they have the serial connector where the newer ones just have usb conections and you need a serial hook up to run dsmlink. Now of course you can get a adapter but the bi*** is that there are VERY specific adapters that work you can't just go to radio shack and get any old adapter.

By the way my link and lap top combo cost me 600 bucs you add eprom ecu for about 225 your looking about 825 for a setup that will do everything but wash your car for you.
 
Haha thats funny slippie. I guess i'll just suck it up and spend some extra $$ thanks for all the help. later
 
$825 for a 300-350whp goal. Dont you think thats a little high You can get a SAFC on ebay brand new for 225. It can be found for 150 with just a little looking. Dsmlink is great yes, but not when you goal is only 350whp. The safc would work great. Instead of buying a logger he can go to a dyno and have them tune it and he would be set for around 300.

Your right but i disagree with you on the gm setup. Most people assume that the gm setup is the way to go with dsmlink I will tell you first hand it can be a HUGE PITA. I just sold my gm setup because when you run the gm setup with dsmlink to get it to run right you have to calibrate the air flow hz in the link settings and to get that right you have to have a wideband or a 3 bar map sensor. I didn't have either and didn't know about calibrating the air flow and the car ran like shit. So I sold the gm setup and pick ed up a evo maf which is on it's way.

Where you running the maf-t 1st gen or 2nd gen. The 1st gen was a pain in the ass, but the 2nd gen works great. My mechanic is running it on dsmlink no problem and making enough power to run 10's on street tires. Most people that go link have higher goals and the maf-t is pretty much needed. But now we have the evo maf, which has not been used much but seems to work great.
 
jfyi. I have the gen II maf and that thing is inaccurate as hell. I have a map sensor from my avcr being logged and everytime the weather changes I have to re-calibrate it. Hate it. Stick with the stock MAS until you overrun it.
 
yeah you can hit those power goals with a SAFC, but is it worth it. I mean the timing will be pulled back farther and you will have worse gas milage, poorer idle, and other things of the such.
 
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