dodge garage mod...

[91-gsx]

when i did this mod to my 1g bov, it would no longer release the pressure all at once, but it would actually sputter. now does this mean that it is causing compressor surge? my 14b also has a lot of shaftplay now after i have rebuilt it and the compressor blades are scraping bad. it is basically dead... time for a new turbo, but it sucks that this is the way this one died. what i want to know is should i reverse the dodgegarage mod because this is probably what caused it, or does that mod not cause compressor surge and kill turbos?
thanks for the help

 

[Spooling99]

http://www.thedodgegarage.com/turbo_bov_mod.html This is the mod he is talking about, crushing the bov is different.

Usually when things like this accur its most of the time user error, not saying its your fault. If this mod has been used enough for people to recommend it then its obviously worked for some. Sorry about your luck.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

If its "sputtering" or "fluttering", this noise IS compressor surge. Why don't people understand that, the BOV doesn't "flutter" and cause compressor surge. The flutter IS the sound of compressor surge.

Don't ghetto hack stuff. Are you running over 18psi or whatever a stock 1G holds? If you are, get a real BOV. If you aren't, then just leave it alone.

 

[compression]

Accually i am running the dodgegarage mod. and on low boost it makes a sputter kind of noise but i can assure you its just the blow off valve opening and closing quickly, if you want to you can hook a pressure source to the nipple you made when doing this mod and it will act like nothing ever changed and will "quick release" but several of my friends are using the dodge garage modded bov.

 

[91-gsx]

well i am going to reverse the dodge garage mod because it is causing surge. i am planning to crush the bov with my mitty vac with a vac gauge, so i can do it the right way. what is the most i can crush it to when it comes to vacuum to open it. some people say
20hg, but the site that shows you how to properly do it says you can go up to 24hg on the gauge. i just want to know what people have done, how much they have crushed it too, etc... i just do not want to over crush it so that it does not open. does anybody know how many hg the intake manifold pulls at idle? as long as the spring is set below this amount of vacuum the bov will remain functional, above this vacuum and the bov will not open, so please only people that have experience with this. i also heard the buschar racing only runs the 1g bov in the crush form.
later and thanks for the help

 

[tstkl]

ok well, you have a couple options. If you want it to return to exactly the way it was before, simply run a line from the intake manifold to the outlet you created. Thats the easiest way.

as for the engine, each engine is different, but a good healthy engine should pull 20 hg at idle, and 22hg while cruising.

you have another option. You can get the dejon tool pressure solinoid which I have and works wonderfully. Its 50 bucks and it causes your bov to almost never leak.

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Ok can we establish something before you destroy the thing even more? Are you running over 18psi? If you aren't, why not just leave it alone?

 

[andymoraitis]

as for the engine, each engine is different, but a good healthy engine should pull 20 hg at idle, and 22hg while cruising.

Please note that aftermarket cams and higher elevation (altitude) will reduce vacuum proportionately.

 

[fourreGsixty3]

Are you planning on goin over 22psi? 14Bs even on c16 wont flow enough to leak a 1G BOV. 1Gs leak at 22-24psi. there are several ways to crush the BOV, the doge garage way, using a vacuum, and using a table clamp (dont crush it past 1/8th"). I wouldnt go past 20hg with the vacuum crushing technique due to what Andy said, and what tstkl said. So just stay safe then 90$ down to buy another 1G BOV.

Dustin

 

[oldman]

Please note that aftermarket cams and higher elevation (altitude) will reduce vacuum proportionately.

Oh no, I'm only pulling -14!!

91-gsx, are you tapping the BOV line for the MBC? If so, keep the BOV line dedicated only for the BOV and see if situation improves.

 

[brute]

For what it's worth, I'm at 5800ft above sea level, FP1/FP2 cams, and pull ~13inHg.

If you want to try something else, you could try wret's solution: 1G BOV Crushing Alternative

 

[91-gsx]

oldman- i do have the bov and the mbc on 2 seperate lines, i follow your instrcutions a lot, if they make sense...just playing.

i was running more then 18psi on the 14b at times, but this is not as question of flow versus is it worth it or not, i just want it to hold the boost now and later when i get a big turbo. is the stock bov rated at 22-24psi stock, i thought it was 17psi at most? there is this link were he says a engine should be pulling 24hg, http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Garage/8384/crushBOV.html
anybody else with experience on crushing the bov, i do plan on using the gauge, not a measurement of 1/8 inch.
thanks for the help,
tony

 

[MyBeatGSX]

For what it's worth, I'm at 5800ft above sea level, FP1/FP2 cams, and pull ~13inHg.

That must be bad for the motor huh?

 

[brute]

No, it's just way slower up here in the clouds. Then again, all cars have the same altitude handicap up here, so it's not too bad. Plus, Pheonix is only ~6 hours away so I can just drive there if I want to run it at sea level.

On a side note, at sea level, I can run for miles and not run out of breath due to my "blood doping"

 

[tstkl]

Please note that aftermarket cams and higher elevation (altitude) will reduce vacuum proportionately.

I forgot about higher elevation (thanks) but I figured someone trying to do the dodge garage mod to their 1g bov wouldn't really be using aftermarket cams. He might be though, and for the people who actually use the search function its a good thing to post, thanks

 

[91-gsx]

so nobody has a crushed bov on here or what? would really like to hear it first hand from somebody who has done it.
later

 

[90blacktsiawd]

I'm running a crushed 1g bov. It's only a temporary thing at the moment. It wouldn't hold over like 15 psi or so and i had a dyno day coming up so i did what i could to fix that. It holds 22 psi without issue right now. Depending on how i let off the gas i can make it flutter. Not sure as to wether its compressor surge or the bov fluttering but ive just learned not to do that. I plan on getting a real bov soon. What else did you want to know?

 

[91-gsx]

I'm running a crushed 1g bov. It's only a temporary thing at the moment. It wouldn't hold over like 15 psi or so and i had a dyno day coming up so i did what i could to fix that. It holds 22 psi without issue right now. Depending on how i let off the gas i can make it flutter. Not sure as to wether its compressor surge or the bov fluttering but ive just learned not to do that. I plan on getting a real bov soon. What else did you want to know?

if it is fluttering then that is a bad thing, that is what compressor surge is, and that is what my moded 1g bov is doing. at high boost it is easy for the pressure to open the bov, but sense the pressure goes down with every flutter and is not being released all at once, the air is backing up into the compressor blades. this is my take on compressor surge, maybe i am way off....any wisemen?
later

 

[MyBeatGSX]

Surge (this kind of surge) happens when the BOV doesn't open enough or at all. Instead of venting the air it backs up into the compressor. The "flutter" you here doesn't come from the BOV, its the noise created by the pressure wave oscelating (sp?) between the compressor and the TB plate.

Best case at low boost it makes a funny noise and slams the compressor wheel into the thrust bearing. Obviously this will damage it and your turbo will have in/out shaft play like mad in a very short amount of time. At higher boost it causes the compressor to either instantly stop or even worse change direction. This is when you get immediate damage like blades snapping off or exploding.


The BOV was designed to operate uncrushed. If you're exceeding its limits, go buy a BOV with a heavier spring that was meant to take higher boost pressures AND still be able to vent fully at low boost. I love my Type-RS btw, holds 25psi no problem and still pops starting at 10in/hg.

Why people crush a BOV that will hold 20psi when they're only running 15psi is beyond me. And even further from my comprehension is why people would crush a BOV that obviously isn't functioning correctly (if its opening at 15psi you have a problem) and hope that will make it hold more boost. Stop ghetto hacking modifications and you'll have far fewer problems.

 

[oldman]

Not every Dodge modded or crushed 1G BOV flutters at low boost, there are tons of sucessful examples out there when it's done right.

 

[Kevin Jewer]

The VAST majority of "compressor surge" people report is actually just BOV noise. With soft BOVs like the 1g it will open before any real pressure can build in the manifold That is the noise you hear, as the pressure cycles and the BOV flutters. This is what I like to call "Internet Surge."

With the Gus Mod the best thing to do is run it with a solenoid to switch between fast release mode and the Gus mode (Gus Mahone pionered this mod, an old school dodge guy, for those that haven't been doing this for a long time). Trigger the solenoid with a WOT switch, pressure switch, DSMlink nitrous controls, pnumatic valve, etc. We could discuss the pros and cons of each method for hours on end, but something needs to be used. Leaving the Gus port vented to atmosphere all the time was NEVER the intention of this mod, and is just asking for problems.

 

[91-gsx]

The VAST majority of "compressor surge" people report is actually just BOV noise. With soft BOVs like the 1g it will open before any real pressure can build in the manifold That is the noise you hear, as the pressure cycles and the BOV flutters. This is what I like to call "Internet Surge."

With the Gus Mod the best thing to do is run it with a solenoid to switch between fast release mode and the Gus mode (Gus Mahone pionered this mod, an old school dodge guy, for those that haven't been doing this for a long time). Trigger the solenoid with a WOT switch, pressure switch, DSMlink nitrous controls, pnumatic valve, etc. We could discuss the pros and cons of each method for hours on end, but something needs to be used. Leaving the Gus port vented to atmosphere all the time was NEVER the intention of this mod, and is just asking for problems.

so the dodge mod is like the Gus mod that you mentioned except with the Gus mod you hook up a solenoid just like the one dejontool sells? the dejontool mod is looking good at this time... can you give me more info on the gus mod, maybe a link, and ill search on it now.
thanks for the help

 

[thekellbeast]

I have the Dejon leakstop kit installed. I haven't had any problems so for. No problems running the t25 at ~18psi, or the 18g at stock boost.

 

[91-gsx]

i have read up on the gus mod and have decided to go ahead and do that mod. a lot of evos and dsms run it, but it is the first i have heard of it on these forums, i even tried searching on this site with no success. i found a link with a writeup of how to do it, and i really think this mod works. here is the link, im pretty sure alot of dsmers on this site will use this mod now, it is free and works off of the same idea behind the dejontool leak stop kit.
http://newengdsm.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6904
later and thanks for the help

 

[90blacktsiawd]

I was running the dejon stop leak kit which is just a gus mahon mod. It held boost without a problem up to 22psi. I haven't tried any higher yet. Just looking at my logs i could see it was holding alot more boost till redline.