Disco Potato Turbo..

[Generation X]

hmmm

disco potato 495 cfm
evoIII 16g 530cfm

and the evoIII turbo is cheaper

I'll keep my FP ported Big28 thankyou. I know the FP Big28 flows more than 495 cfm.

 

[ahaidet]

I maybe one of the few people on this board that understand what your looking for. Seems like most guys on this are only interested in "Peak" horsepower which is good for two things: bragging rights on the dyno, and 1/4 mile times. However on the street and for autocross you/ I are looking for a more broad power band that puts more area under the horsepower curve, also know as torque. I however do not know what turbo would be best for this, after reading about the disco potato in SCC sure makes it sound like right turbo for the job. It seems sized similar to a 16G with a ball bearing center.. what lag? haha.. I hear however that the EVO 16G spools faster do to lighter rotating mass in the wheels, however it is not ball bearing. I gave a quick look and can't find anyone either running it on a DSM or anyone selling kits to install it. It CAN be done however it probably would require a custom manifold. I am coming fresh off an engine rebuild with a ported 14b and will be in the market for a turbo shortly. My goals are similar to yours 300-350 hp is plenty if its in the right place in the power band, (I don't know about those 2000 RPM claims, I'd like to dream it was true but find it hard to believe.) However the price of the 16G turbos either small, big, or evo is very appealing especially when compared to the nearly double that price of the Potato.. My plan when it comes time to spend some money is to contact places like Forced Performance and other turbo builders/ rebuilders.. and tell them my goals see what they recommend also look at what people are running compared to there results. Opinions are like assholes everybody has one. Not everyone has numbers and data to back up there claims. So happy turbo searching and let me know if you find a similar turbo setup for our cars or someone running the potato..

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/projectcars/0306scc_projsilvia/

thats the link to the potato install on the silvia.. read that and alot more people will want one... (till they see the price..) It is cheaper now though.. I found it yesterday for about $1100

 

[ShapeGSX]

I get tons of low to mid-range torque with the Evo III. Even just at very light throttle at low RPMs, the car hauls.

 

[GPTourer]

Didn't HKS just come out with a bolt on kit for the Evo VIII that uses this turbo? We will see how they respond to it. I'm sure the kit will be pricey, but will it be an upgrade or a step sideways?

I think the point is, by the time you spend the money for a Garrett manifold so that you can use this on a DSM, the "benefit" over an Evo 3 would be barely noticeable, if it all.

 

[ahaidet]

If you are looking for max power stay away from the Potato turbo... it is made for fast response and awesome mid-range power. I have a high respect for Dave Coleman at SCC and when the man says this about a turbo:
"The turbo is amazingly responsive, making 5 psi of boost as low as 2000 rpm on the freeway, and eagerly making full boost by 3000. Modulating the throttle is as easy as it can be with this much boost. Feather the throttle and the boost gauge will move with your foot"
I tend to take notice. Coleman knows his stuff and has been around and driven more turbo cars than most of us have even looked at.

Granted the turbo is pricey and even more so with all supporting mods such as manifold and oil/ cooling lines but the thing is the 16G can never be as responsive as this turbo is... unless someone releases a ball bearing version

I think the point is, by the time you spend the money for a Garrett manifold so that you can use this on a DSM, the "benefit" over an Evo 3 would be barely noticeable, if it all.

Any rate the "benefit" I have a suspicion would be VERY noticeable.. If you meant would it be cost effective.. maybe not, if you can get 70% of the performance out of an EVO 16G then its probably not worth it. And by performance I do not mean 1/4 mile times or max HP dyno slips I'm refferring to response and mid-range power. Now I am not completely hating on the 16G because it has been a very good turbo to us DSM'ers. I very well may end up with a 16G on my car, however for responsiveness (and high price) you can't beat ball bearings. Everything is a compromise...

 

[99gst_racer]

Does this turbo use the T04b or e compressor housing?
It seems like you could pick up a Bullseye turbine housing to make this Garrett a direct bolt-on for our Mitsu's......

 

[unior]

hmmm

disco potato 495 cfm
evoIII 16g 530cfm

and the evoIII turbo is cheaper




http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/stfu.php

excuse me?

TD05H-16G6-7cm2
With the TD05H-7cm2 exhaust housing it is used on the Lancer Evolution 3. With the TD05HR twin-scroll housing it is available on Evo 4 to 8
- Compressor wheel is aluminum with thinner blades
than standard 16G
- Turbine wheel is Inconel (steel alloy)

Min CFM @ 2.0 PR = 150
Rated CFM @ 2.0 PR = 580
Practical Max CFM = 530
Choke CFM = 625

-------------------------------------------------

GT28RS 62-Trim - the Garrett "Disco Potato"

Min CFM @ 2.0 PR = 150
Rated CFM @ 2.0 PR = 495
Practical Max CFM = 450
Choke CFM = 550

 

[unior]

you guys are retards if your gonna pay $1100 for a turbo that flows 80cfm less than the evo3 turbo for <$600

mind you the evo 3 turbo is very similar to the evo 8 turbo which curt brown just ran an 11.3 on i believe WTF

run an 11.3 on a vw ### gt28 ...HAH yeah right

 

[grey98]

yeah i accually ment it was capable of making 300hp in the 2000k-3000k range but the dyno sheets i seen were on a sr20det so..... i still believe notthing is impossible

Haha, I think you mean 300 ft/lbs of torque maybe...b/c 300hp at that 2000 rpm would be almost 800 ft/lbs of torque...and somehow, I don't think thats happening

The numbers FP quoted me for the the evo 3 and big t28 were:

Evo 3 - 550cfm or probably 380ish hp tops on race gas (unless you're shapegsx)
Big t28 - 520cfm or 350ish hp

So same difference I guess, haha. They said though that you really wouldn't notice the difference at typical street/pump gas levels. I think if you're really interested in this disco potato a FP big t28 would serve you quite well and deliver very similar results.

 

[ahaidet]

you guys are retards if your gonna pay $1100 for a turbo that flows 80cfm less than the evo3 turbo for <$600

mind you the evo 3 turbo is very similar to the evo 8 turbo which curt brown just ran an 11.3 on i believe WTF

run an 11.3 on a vw ### gt28 ...HAH yeah right

I think your totally missing the point...Some of us care about other things than the best possible 1/4 mile time. Things such as boost response.. Max flow rate is good for max horsepower.. A quick spooling turbo makes more low end torque sooner.. which is better IMO for street use.. and clearly better for autocross use. And for that matter people have run 11's on 14b's. We are clearly looking at turbos for different applications.. your interested in chasing down the best 1/4 mile time you can... I want to be able have power available at lower RPMS for autocross and street use.
On a side note it sounds like Forced Performance Big T28 (which I believe someone else mentioned previously) has very good boost response also.. and is a much more affordable alternative. Here is what they say about it...

The FP-Big28 is our second generation of stock appearing turbos that are super responsive, and pack some serious power. The FP-Big28 wraps cutting edge Garrett Ballistic Concepts internals in the unassuming shell of a stock 2nd gen turbo. This turbo walks softly, but it carries a big stick.


"A Wolf in Sheep's Turbine Housings
The FP-Big28 uses modified T25 compressor and turbine housings, which means this turbo could trick its mamma into thinking it was a T25. Don't let that cute little shell fool you, however, because on the inside it's 100% pure evil. We carefully selected a compressor and turbine combination that provide massive flow capabilities and very little back pressure. Doesn't sound like a big deal? Did we mention it makes full boost in just a hair over 3000rpm, and holds solid all the way to redline? Now we're cooking with gas.

Thank you, drive through.
Our goal with the FP-Big28 was similar to its FP-T28/28 predecessor… to create a fast spooling, bolt on turbo that got up and went. We wanted to give the FP-Big28 a little more "umph" than the T-28, but when we strapped one on a 2G AWD and took it to the track, the results knocked us on our ass. At 21psi, the FP-Big28 pulled our full weight 99 GSX to an [email protected].

One Size Fits All
This turbo has enormous potential, and in almost any DSM application… from street, to autocross, to drag racing… we recommend the turbine housing porting. The FP-Big28 has got you covered like a jimmy hat. "

 

[ShapeGSX]

I think your totally missing the point...Some of us care about other things than the best possible 1/4 mile time. Things such as boost response.. Max flow rate is good for max horsepower.. A quick spooling turbo makes more low end torque sooner.. which is better IMO for street use.. and clearly better for autocross use.

And that is exactly why I have an Evo III 16G. It has all of that, and is cheap, too!

FP's car is the only car to have ever run an 11 with a T28. I wouldn't consider that the norm. That particular car was known to run incredibly fast with virtually any set up.

 

[rdrkt]

I think your totally missing the point...Some of us care about other things than the best possible 1/4 mile time. Things such as boost response.. Max flow rate is good for max horsepower.. A quick spooling turbo makes more low end torque sooner.. which is better IMO for street use.. and clearly better for autocross use. And for that matter people have run 11's on 14b's. We are clearly looking at turbos for different applications.. your interested in chasing down the best 1/4 mile time you can... I want to be able have power available at lower RPMS for autocross and street use.

I think YOU are missing the point. Have you actually seen a dyno chart from each turbo? Look around a bit you might learn something. You will not see a $700 improvment in powerband. At absolute best you MIGHT see 300rpms difference between an E316g and a GT28rs. Its not like we are comparing a 60-1 to a 14b. Both turbo will produce a VERY similar curve one will just cost about half.

 

[GPTourer]

Any rate the "benefit" I have a suspicion would be VERY noticeable.. If you meant would it be cost effective.. maybe not,

Well yeah, that's what I meant. From a cost/benefit standpoint. The reason I put benefit in quotes is because the slightly better spool versus top end trade off is not that big a deal IMO. I'd rather have the top end. Like everyone has said, it sounds like a Big28 to me, or somwhere between that and the 2544 (or whatever) thing they (FP) don't want to sell you anymore. Look how that turned out.

 

[ahaidet]

I would like to see a dyno chart of a GT28RS on a 4g63, as I have been unable to find one, (I have seen several on SR20DET which is the same displacement but not comparable exactly). If you know where I could see one for the 4g63 please enlighten me. My intuition tells me that there has got to be more than 300RPMS separating the two, and it would be nice to see runs on the same dyno, as we all know comparing one dyno to another is bull crap when we are trying to measure something potentially small. I never said that it was worth the $700 dollars increase over the Evo 3 16G. However in autocrossing even 300RPM's is a big deal, would you be better off spending that money on the suspension probably but at the upper echelons of Street Mod that extra 300RPM sooner of power could help you win a regional or if you were particularly well setup even a national. Autocrosses are decided by hundredths of a second and its not all spent at 6500-8000 RPM.. unfortunately. In drag racing you will see 2500 RPM once in the whole run, so that minimal increase at one RPM level is of little use. Autocrossing especially in a 1G you do not want to go to redline or you will get the powersteering pump acting squirly, and you will see 2500 RPM several times throughout the course.. which can make up to a few hundredths or even tenths of a second by the end. From an economics stand point the GT28RS is probably stupid because for $700 you could do alot more to make your car more balanced and reliable, however if you are looking for even the slightest edge performance wise then the GT28RS I am sure has that over the Evo 3 16G.

 

[Revolution]

excuse me?

Unior , I quoted you because I was personally agreeing with you ,don't take any offense I just though the link was very condescending of this topic.

OK First off if you're actually going to talk about how 100th of a second would determin a win or lose then I agree with you but you're going about it the wrong way. First off if you where really that into autocrossing you would have a stroker motor because the added displacement would do wonders in autocrossing,and depending on the rules you would still have enough points to keep you in your category. To justify tenths of a second by spending an extra $700 is ridiculous. First off if you where really serious about autocrossing then seat time is what you need ,because in the end thats what decides the winner and the losers not the amount of mods a car has or 300 rpm. The evo316g is the better all around choice it flows more and picks up spool fast making it the honest triple threat turbo .Meaning it's perfect for daily driving it's still a kick ass turbo for autocrossing and it performs when asked in the 1320.

I don't see anyway your argument in retro spec to autocrossing would state that a $700 investment for 300 rpm would make or brake the time slip. That extra cash could be spent on lightening the car or suspension or brakes or a fuel surge tank,I could go on.

My point is this in accordance to what many of the tuners whom have given their opinions from personal to technical have stated the better choice in the end would be an evo316g.
Now if you want to talk about the fpbigt28 then I would still say that the e316g is still a better over all turbo, because we don't grow money on trees and price will always be a huge factor.

Any person can drive a car and speed, but only a few can take a car and show it's true potential,seat time would be the best investment possible,go to a racing school I'll bet you instead of shaving off tenths your actually shaving full seconds. As far as having a stroked 4g63 I still think that an e316g would be a good choice because not only would you get full boost faster but the drastic change in the power range would be very conducive to autocrossing.

Anyways I'm not going to tell anybody what to do ,but over spending for indifferences is nonsense ,now if you where to say Rev what do you think about spending $700 on a smim then I'd say go for it because thats an extra 40 to even 80 hp from mid to top.

 

[ACKERSON]

Why dont you give forced performance a call, they sell both turbochargers. I'm sure they would be able to point you in the right direction if you tell them your goals and your budget

 

[ahaidet]

Thanks for the advice on the going to autocross school but I have attended 3 of them. I know that seat time is paramount in autocross racing... I was not implying that the #1 mod you should do is go and buy a $1100 turbo to be a competitive autocrosser. I did in fact say that $700 would be better spent elsewear for a better balanced car (tires, suspension or more seat time ideally, ultimately a turbo upgrade is really not that important of an upgrade for an autocross car in the first place especially for someone just beginning) I have my priorities straight for autocross competition.. here is a link to a post I left a few days ago helping out a fellow DSM'er for autocross setup. But all else being equal and if money were no object the disco potato would provide an advantage on an autocross course because of its full ball bearing center housing, providing faster spool. I never said the difference was 300 RPMs, I tend to believe that it would be a greater difference than that and until pruven otherwise by someone with credible dyno results I will stand by that statement. Money being an issue, and it always is in the real world your would be better off buying an Evo 3 16G... I have said that several times. I have no beef with the Evo 3 16G, however in a straight technical comparison between it and the GT28RS.. the GT28RS has the upperhand, the 16G can simply not overcome the drag forces in a standard fluid bearing to spool as fast as the GT28RS can with ball bearings. With what I said about autocrossing in mind, I was simply making a point where if you were in the "Upper Echelons" (meaning very competitive looking for every possible edge to win) that the GT28RS would have its niche there, and by that point if you are competing in Topeka for a national title you probably have a decent handle on your driving ability (so seat time is and isn't an issue at the top levels). For 98% of the DSM community looking for this type of a turbo, the Evo 3 16G will do everything they want and more. I am not however vying for a national Solo2 autocross title, I simply do not have time and money to devote to winning a title, nor are my driving skills as advanced as they need to be to truly make a serious attempt. I also think it is safe to assume that most people reading this thread are not entertaining the idea of a national title either, so perhaps my efforts to describe the benefits of such turbo are mute. I would be better off entering the Formula SAE car that I am currently heavily involved with building and driving, at Topeka come September and winning a title there if I was so inclined. I am not some punk kid out to speed, I work on real race cars and compete in autocross at a high level (search for FSAE cars.. Akrons car is capable of embarrassing any DSM on any autocross.) So please do not jump in telling me to go get some experience driving.. Beyond this I am not currently in the market for a turbo charger. I am not suggesting anyone in the market for a turbocharger go buy a GT28RS unless you know what you are buying and exactly what benefits it can give you over the other alternatives. When I am ready to purchase my turbo Forced Performance will be the first place I will call. (as I suggested to someone previously) I believe this thread was started based on what info people have on the turbo. Not on whether or not a 16G would be a better buy. For the king of fast spool, you cant beat ball bearings for the bearing housing. Hate to see what would happen if I mentioned VATN Turbos. But any rate as everyone else has said 32409343089 times.. the Evo 3 16G is hard to beat for the price.. but from a technical stand point is dated when compared to the "Disco Potato" GT28RS.

Geez tell a guy his 16G ain't king of the hill and look what happens. What if I told you guys that a WRC turbo spools faster!

 

[unior]

Things such as boost response..

The correct terminology your looking for is transient response or boost threshold if you don't understand what I'm talking about start reading up.

And for that matter people have run 11's on 14b's.

Yes, with a large shot of nitrous.



Ok fine if you must have a ball bearing turbo that costs twice as much $$ to buy and is impossible to rebuild when it bites the dust then go for it.

 

[ahaidet]

I know the correct terminology.. I have read Corky Bells "Maximum Boost" front to back 2 times... My mistake for using a commonly misused term. If you want to get into a discussion on thermodynamics, fluid mechanics and material science we can pertaining to getting better transient response.. but this thread is not the place to get into it.

2nd if you would read what I have said 232094509 times.. you would understand what I am saying. I never said it was practical, reasonable or affordable. Never once did I claim a ball bearing turbo was any of those. But from a performance stand point they are superior. If you are looking for maximum performance it is the way to go and in racing, speed costs money... Look at WRC cars their turbos are trashed after every race... but they use that design because it has superior performance. And their turbos cost tens of thousands of dollars.

I also never said I would be buying a GT28RS I said I understand what he is looking for in a turbo, and for the most part the EVO 3 16G will give him that performance at a fraction of the price. However if you are looking for the ultimate in low boost threshold turbos then the GT28RS is a place to look, and the only people who should honestly be looking at that turbo are someone who is very serious about racing, specifically auto-x. Most likely I will end up with the EVO 16G unless I find something that offers a better balance of performance and price for my application, and this is not for a few months that I will be shopping.

 

[unior]

Unior , I quoted you because I was personally agreeing with you ,don't take any offense I just though the link was very condescending of this topic.

oh ok

 

[ahaidet]

Yes, with a large shot of nitrous.



This is my point exactly one guy running a good setup making good numbers does not mean... everyone will run that.

Check out www.diamondstarmotorsports.com they have a 14b without nitrous running 11's.. but this is just another red herring. We could do this all day long bring up special cases of great numbers from an unconventional setup..

 

[unior]

I also never said I would be buying a GT28RS I said I understand what he is looking for in a turbo, and for the most part the EVO 3 16G will give him that performance at a fraction of the price. However if you are looking for the ultimate in low boost threshold turbos then the GT28RS is a place to look, and the only people who should honestly be looking at that turbo are someone who is very serious about racing, specifically auto-x. Most likely I will end up with the EVO 16G unless I find something that offers a better balance of performance and price for my application, and this is not for a few months that I will be shopping.

i already said if you price dosnt matter and the only thing you care about is boost threshold and transient respont below 3k rpms then buy the disco potato. i just didnt spend 4 paragraphs trying to say that.

 

[carbonfire]

I was going to use a modded version of the Dico Potato.... slightley larger with a .70A/R (I think it was a 50 trim) but went with an even larger 60 trim T3/T4.... not ball bearing but capible of making more total HP

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[RayH]

Unfortumately all the big shops have discontinued their small bolt-on BB turbos for the 4G63. I was lucky enough to recently find a used AGP SS44 with a new center cartridge. I think the Evo III 16G really put a damper on small BB turbos since it does so much for about half the cost.

I plan on eventually running 9:1 compression and a Cyclone manifold to further enhance the low end spool.

 

[Generation X]

Here ya go.... check this guys site out. His name is Dennis Grant, and he's all about autox. He uses FP's ported Big28. http://farnorthracing.com/