Did I get ripped off here?

[MaStA]

Ok so back in July about 1,000 or 1,500 miles ago I got a brand new clutch kit installed in my 1998 Eclipse N/T and it was just a stock LuK replacement cause it is a stock car and staying stock. The reason I got the clutch replaced is because it was getting hard to shift gears. Ok so new clutch goes in and I go for a drive the clutch was very easy to push in and at times it still felt kinda hard to get in any gear. I took it back the same day and they drove it again and said it felt fine so whatever I figured let it brake in a little while and see so here I am now in September. It is still hard to get into gears and if your rolling very slow you should be able to pretty easily get into first gear but sometimes it is impossible it seems. So I called another Cottman and he said it probably just needs to have the system bled so I end up taking it back to the one I went to right off base and having the SAME guy that installed the clutch look at it. He adjusted it a bit where I easily noticed a difference in the clutch and it was better but still sometimes a little jerky to get into gear so I said would flushing the clutch(brake) fluid help. He said it wouldn't help but it would tell us if there is something like metal or anything in there. So he ends up doing that and then I come to find out he thinks the front main seal is bad cause on the left of the tranny where it looked flat and I would imagine a gasket is there was leaking a little. They say it must of just started leaking cause they would of seen it when they replaced the clutch...this seems a bit fishy to me seeing that I asked the guy who did the job well how hard would it be to replace the seal since you had my tranny open and he says I don't know. That pretty much tells me he didnt look at the seal and wouldn't know if it was bad so this all could of been prevented by him actually checking that seal out and could of been done for what $50 since the tranny was dropped already. I don't know how much that stuff costs but it would be $358 less if the tranny was already dropped. Also they said my clutch will be bad and need to be replaced now since oil is all over it and will be softened. The manager said he has to ask his boss if it will be covered under warranty...umm it freakin better be or I am going to flip out. Does this sound fishy to you or what? I think on Monday I am going to go to AAMCO to get another opinion as well as find out what his boss says about this. Also the guy who did it said now it is adjusted the way it should be meaning he didn't do it right the first time as well. Looks like they should eat that labor charge, replace the clutch, and let me pay for the seal or whatever to be replaced. He also said there has to be a reason the seal went bad which could be a bearing or bushing or something...any thoughts or ideas on what I should do here cause I am furious. I think there upset to begin with because they guarenteed me a price on the clutch before finding out it was a modular clutch and then having to "lose" money and on top of that I got a military discount. So who knows what they did right or wrong. Also is it normal if you do not touch the clutch or push it in at all and try pushing it into first gear and your car starts creeping forward slowly? Thanks a bunch beforehand. Please help!

Jared

 

[sweet97]

Jarrod have you changed the tranny oil? You should use a synthetic like Penziol or BG syncremesh which is a bit pricy at $11/qt. Difficult for me to help any more as I am not tranny educated. How farfrom the floor does the pedal move before the clutch begins to engage? Mark

 

[mavisky]

sounds to me like your tranny is showing a little age and with a slightly mis-adjusted clutch is the entire reason you can't get from one gear to the next as smoothly as before.

as for the seal situation i am having a little trouble deciphering what you're talking about. the engine has a front main seal that is on the opposite side of the motor from the transmission (the passenger side of your car), it also has a rear main seal that would leak out of where the tranny and engine block meet, and there's also the input shaft seal that goes to the transmission. i'm assuming the input shaft seal is what he's calling the main front seal on the tranny. if that's the case it isn't un-common for those to wear down and leak over time. just because the leak wasn't there when they took the tranny off for the clutch doesn't mean its their fault that its leaking now. seals break down over time.

how long exactly was it from when they did the clutch work til they found the leaking seal? also how many miles do you have on your transmission right now? do you drive it hard at all? what transmission fluid do you use and have you ever had it changed, other than when they installed the clutch?

 

[MaStA]

I just bought this car in like May. I got the clutch replaced in July and they put new tranny fluid in there then. The leak on the outside of the transmission was on the left side so towards the passenger side. When a guy showed me an open tranny he pointed to a seal that is around where the clutch goes on. The seal went around the piece the clutch slides onto I guess. I don't know too much about this stuff. It's just funny how the guy who did the job said he don't know how hard it would be to replace and depends if you have to take it apart or not. That kinda tells me he didn't check it out. If it was slowly leaking before you couldn't tell if it had no oil in it or maybe I am wrong. Also I am not sure how that seal works but I know for normal seals if you break the seal and try to reseal it, it never seals the way it did the first time it sealed but I don't think that seal is like that so this comment is probably null and void. The car has 84K on it. It was female driven it's whole life until I got it. I don't drive the car crazy. I just don't get if it is that seal they pointed to how the oil is getting outside of the transmission unless that seal allows it to get outside of the tranny. I told them that this transmission I have read from many people on these forums and other forums that it is very picky with tranny oil and if you don't use the stuff from mitubishi or something like it, it can eat the syncros up. I just hope that the oil didn't eat this seal up. I am sure they used the generic stuff they use in every car that comes in. I just think this is very odd...also the clutch engages very high and he said there is no way to fix that. Since he said it is adjusted how it should be now, that told me he did it wrong the first time he installed it which is BS...I wish I would of went to pep boys and paid less money and got probably just as good as job. Anymore ideas? I can try to get some pictures if I rent a lift on base. Also I really wonder if a seal is bad since prior to that and not having it on a lift he was bleeding the slave cylinder and messing with oil which could of squirted all over stuff down there. The day prior to going there I changed my valve cover gasket which was leaking all down my engine in the front and I have synthetic oil in there which is very clean and who knows if any other kind of oil ran down the transmission? Just a thought. They said I should see a puddle wherever I stop my car so I will check that out today and see how true that is.

Thanks,
Jared

 

[mavisky]

ok so it is the input shaft seal we're talking about here. the input shaft is what connects your motor to your transmissino when the clutch is grabbing. the seal is the main seal on the tranny and can go bad if the bearings are worn and the shaft has even the slightest mis-alignment or wobble to it. as for him not knowing how hard it would be to replace, i don't doubt that at all. some cars (and this may include your nt) can be replaced from just inside the bellhousing (where the clutch goes). others like the transmissions on the turbo vehicles and all 1st gen cars have to have the gears removed from the tranny completely to gain access to the seal from the inside. if he's not a mitsubishi specialist i doubt he'd be able to memorize which yours is.

 

[MaStA]

ok so it is the input shaft seal we're talking about here. the input shaft is what connects your motor to your transmissino when the clutch is grabbing. the seal is the main seal on the tranny and can go bad if the bearings are worn and the shaft has even the slightest mis-alignment or wobble to it. as for him not knowing how hard it would be to replace, i don't doubt that at all. some cars (and this may include your nt) can be replaced from just inside the bellhousing (where the clutch goes). others like the transmissions on the turbo vehicles and all 1st gen cars have to have the gears removed from the tranny completely to gain access to the seal from the inside. if he's not a mitsubishi specialist i doubt he'd be able to memorize which yours is.

Well I don't see any oil on the ground from my car even after I drive it and let it sit about 30 minutes. If I get down there and look it still looks damp like yesturday but oil don't dry up very fast either so I don't know if it's the tranny leaking or possibly the brake fluid from the slave cylinder even oil from running down the engine maybe? I'm not sure...I am going to take some pictures in a minute and see without jacking it up how good of pics I can take but you will see the leak they are talking about from the bottom at least. BRB

Thanks,
Jared

 

[mavisky]

when my input shaft seal leaked it was noticeable and stunk really bad when i smelled the fluid on the ground.

 

[MaStA]

Here are some pictures

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As you can see I just changed the valve cover gasket with a felpro and I didn't clean up the oil yet off of the head is it called . So could oil from here ran down that far?

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Here is the slave cylinder and he bled it and all down there and on the right where the plastic is to keep stuff from flying into the engine compartment there was oil splattered all the way over there so he got it all over when he did this so how is it not possible he got it on the transmission as well? Also you can see how the guy forgot my freakin cap that goes on the bleed stem...another thing to complain about yay!

Any ideas would help me out a lot. Thanks guys,
Jared

 

[MaStA]

My cousin said I should clean the tranny off and drive it for a day and see if that leak spot comes back. Just seems weird that there is never any oil on the ground and the leak don't really look that wet...I don't know everything will work out one way or another.

Jared

 

[MaStA]

Ok I just went and cleaned all the oil off the head from the previous leaking valve cover gasket and jacked up the car and used some castrol degreaser stuff and cleaned the tranny off. Then I went up to the car wash and cleaned the whole engine bay and cleaned the tranny off again. I just drove it around the base and came back on to park it. I am going out in a little bit and when I come back I will check the bottom of the tranny again. I really do not think it is leaking...it looked like dried up...clear fluid like the brake fluid is...so lets see if that big spot comes back in a few days and if by Monday I am going back to complain some more and go out there when they put it on a lift so he can't do anything stupid to make me think there is something leaking. Also I want my slave cylinder bleed valve cover back and if they have to buy one so be it. I am fumin ...thanks a whole lot for your input. I heard these are great tranny's in the N/T and at 84K it's hard to believe it's breaking down already since my 240SX almost had 300K miles on it and a bearing in the tranny is going bad but it still is running like a champ cause my mom drives it as a daily driver. So wish me luck come Monday and I will keep you guys updated. Thanks again

P.S. - I just called Mitsubishi parts and they have that NV-T350 tranny fluid in stock and since I'm military the guy said he could get me it for $11 a quart so I need two quarts one thread said. So come monday if no leaks again I am going to tell Cottman if I go buy the fluid will you change it for free since you put the wrong fluid in for my car and see what they say...hopefully this will fix the hard shifts.

Jared

 

[MaStA]

Ok I just got home. On the way to where I was going it was slipping in like 4th and 5th gear. If you would floor it the rpm's would go up about a 1,000 and if you let off the gas it would stumble back down to where it should of been. It is odd that it don't seem to be slipping when you take off in 1st or 2nd and seems like all the power and hold is there. On my way home the car sat for like 2 hours and it didn't seem to slip at all in any gear so I don't know what the deal is. It seems to me that the clutch is not adjusted properly and not fully engaging cause it literally engages at the top of the pedal. I was told by someone that they may not even put a new clutch in because a new clutch should engage about 1/3 of the way at the most up...so this is seeming weird to me. Monday I will be dealing with all this cause I am ticked. I do not think this guy knows what he is doing that installed my clutch. Also the liquid that was on the bottom of my transmission was clear and I was told transmission fluid is red in color...it didn't look red to me at all. Well come Monday if I don't see any fluid where it was seen on Friday then I don't think there is a leak. Well anymore ideas?

Thanks,
Jared

 

[MaStA]

Ok some ok news I guess. This morning I get up to another Cottman around 8:30 and talk with the guys. They do their free check and a tech drives it etc. They don't see any problems so I go for a ride with the guy and boom it starts slipping for him. So after that I end up revealing to them I just had a new clutch installed and how they said they think this and that is leaking. So here the manager of that store says the general manager should be there in a couple minutes. Oh great here comes the guy from the other store which I didn't know was the general manger of this one as well so anyways I have it out with this guy. He is an older man so he was huffin and puffin so they end up making me take it back to the one that did the clutch job. So they get out there and start inspecting again and they go, Oh we found something we think the fill plug is bad HAHA I was like the other cottman just checked the tranny fluid level and that is why it looks like it is leaking so ok that gets scratched. So we come to the conclusion of I will not pay a penny for them to drop the tranny so they do that and look at that no leaks or anything and it's dry as can be. So I end up telling them I want the Mitsubishi oil in there so I go and spend $32 on 3 quarts of the oil for the NV-T350 transaxle and they will be using that tomorrow. So I was like well why does it engage so high and all. I talked to Mitsubishi mechanics and they said it should engage at the most half way up and engaging at the top is just not right. Also the mechanic at Mitsu. said right away when I said they used bulk tranny oil he said let me guess your having shifting problems. He said that stuff will tear up the Chrysler trannies so anyways. Tomorrow a new LuK clutch kit is coming in and they are going to install that along with the Mitsubishi oil. I doubt this is going to fix where the clutch engages and the guy at cottman adjusts the master cylinder thing by the pedal and can't get it to engage farther towards the ground so what is the problem here...both master and slave is good do these people just not know how to adjust this or what? Well at least I am getting a new clutch again and using the right oil. I will let you all know what the deal is after work.

Jared

 

[MaStA]

Ok new clutch is in and mitsubishi tranny oil is in. Now it engages two or three inches off the ground which is finally right. Clutch feels great and the gears shift so much smoother. This oil is what you need period don't go for anything else but this. Thanks for all your help guys! Now on to the next thing...I went for an alignment after this and the guy went for a test drive after and it still pulled to the left a little. So he put it back up there and made the right side compensate for the left but still keep it in the green and now it seems to drive straight. The guy said maybe the tire is faulty but they checked it out and they said it probably is the shocks or struts whatever this car has, he said what it was but I can't remember which. So great...and yeah I am sure they are stock with 84 almost 85K miles so yeah probably about time. They seem mushy anyways and I hate the suspension on this car at least how it is now. They can put 4 on for like $400 and something geesh. I forgot the brand but its a popular one that begins with a M. Any cheap struts online for this car? How hard are they to install? Maybe I should start another thread for this now . Well thanks again and wish me luck

Jared