Custom header to run evo-style twin scroll turbos

[DirtyBirdRacing]

Does a twin scroll or divided housing give up any high rpm flow? With MOST things, this trade off exists, I'm curious if this is a rare "free lunch".

Hi,

The way that I understand it is that a turbo with a given A/R turbine side will spool up faster with a divided inlet turbine side, but will be a bit more restrictive on the top end due to the twin volutes design. Therefore when you use a twin inlet turbine housing you should run a higher A/R turbine side then you would with a traditional inlet turbine housing. That way you can have the same spool up with better top end breathing. Hope that helps. Can someone please verify this for me or set me straight?

Thanks,
Bill

 

[awdwhip]

Hi,

The way that I understand it is that a turbo with a given A/R turbine side will spool up faster with a divided inlet turbine side, but will be a bit more restrictive on the top end due to the twin volutes design. Therefore when you use a twin inlet turbine housing you should run a higher A/R turbine side then you would with a traditional inlet turbine housing. That way you can have the same spool up with better top end breathing. Hope that helps. Can someone please verify this for me or set me straight?

Thanks,
Bill

Interesting.... I hope your right. And if you are than a divided T3 turbine with a .78AR from ATP Turbo would be a good choice

 

[DirtyBirdRacing]

a divided T3 turbine with a .78AR from ATP Turbo would be a good choice

Hi,

Yeah that is exactly what I was thinking as well.

Bill

 

[awdwhip]

Hi,

Yeah that is exactly what I was thinking as well.

Bill

Now if thats the turbo of your choiceWHo makes one if any

 

[JOEY A]

EVO twin scroll blows out big and evoIII turbos out of the water



This is a good idea, for a affordable manifold

 

[JOEY A]

And look at how fast stock turbo evos can go......

 

[dsm-onster]

Yes. A divided housing turbine has quicker spool. But it doesn't suffer from lower top end potential for a housing of the same shape that is undivided.

It also asists in increasing overall engine VE. It prevents the backflow of exhaust gases into the cylinder during the valve overlap episode.

 

[DirtyBirdRacing]

Now if thats the turbo of your choiceWHo makes one if any

ATP makes a divided 0.78 A/R turbine housing.

I saw it in one of the links previously in this thread

Was just saying that I would like to try this option over maybe a conventional 0.63 A/R turbine housing.

Bill

 

[DirtyBirdRacing]

Yes. A divided housing turbine has quicker spool. But it doesn't suffer from lower top end potential for a housing of the same shape that is undivided.

It also asists in increasing overall engine VE. It prevents the backflow of exhaust gases into the cylinder during the valve overlap episode.

Thanks for the info.

Bill

 

[thilaksharma]

i am not sure if u saw my topic on t3 divided turbine housing
and YES, garrett makes them but i am not sure if u get them in your region

some pics of a 60-1 with 0.82 t3 divided in the asia region

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omegis13 : its cylinder 1- 4 , 2-3 setup

explained by turbobygarrett
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/turbo-system-tech/276956-t3-divided-turbine-housing.html

 

[DirtyBirdRacing]

^^^Thanks for the heads up.

Bill

 

[jkimes]

The real question is though, why did the wheel never come to building a twin scroll setup for our cars? Could it be because 75% of performance enthusiasts with our vehicles focus on drag racing? I'm looking to build a primarily street driven car good for auto cross and MAYBE the oassional drag race, in which case if I can keep up with a C6 Vette, I'd be more than happy. Before anyone even decides to suggest that I just stick with a smaller turbo, let me make this clear; I do not feel that a 16g, or possibly even a 20g is going to be enough power for me. Yes, I plan on over compensating driver ability with equipment, but let's not get into that. Simply put, I did not create this thread for everyone to sit here and question my reasons, knowledge, or practicality. I created it to look into other options for our cars. Let's keep the focus on that, and not on questioning my direction

This is why I don't freqent this board nearly as much as I used too.... Everyone here seems to be content with the status quo and as soon as someone mentions a new idea or something that hasn't been tried 1000 times before they get flamed for it. I personally think the real reason why no one builds TS T3 manifolds for our cars is the fact that very few people in the DSM community are willing to spend the money for cutting edge performance. Full-Race.com builds Twin scroll kits and manifolds for EVO's and sells them like hot cakes but they do not make TS manifolds or kits for DSM's. Why do you think that is? I hate to say it, but I'm pretty sure it's because most of us are too cheap to buy them. I'm not saying I'm any better, because like most DSMers, I'm cheap and I bought my car because it's a great performance platform with very little initial investment required, but I have also learned after 12 years working on and modifying DSM's that it takes alot of money and research to do it properly. Evo's use the same basic platform as us, but people who can afford to spend 30K+ on a new car also tend to have a lot more cash to throw around for modifications. Hence the huge aftermarket for EVO's. If you register on the evolutionm.net forums and view the evo/turbo/drivetrain forums you will notice lots of guys using/buying/testing new twin scroll t3 and t4 turbo variations and posting dyno results etc... There is at least one guy over there that has taken the initiative to bolt on multiple Twin scroll turbos to the same car and is dynoing all of his results. FULL RACE TWIN SCROLL 30R results and data - evolutionm.net
He hasn't dynoed it yet... but the newest variation that is generating alot of buzz is a twin scroll 35r turbo with a T3 1.06 A/R hotside. You should be able to buy this turbo from full-race or lsdmotorsports for between $1300-$1700 and then have the turbo sent to FP and have the HTA wheel mod done for an additional $400. This should yield a setup that spools much faster than a standard 3582r, has excellent part throttle response and street manners (fun to drive) and make similar power to a gt40 (bushur made over 700whp with his HTA on a 2.0). This is the setup I intend to run on my car very soon if testing shows that the TS 35r HTA combo works, but it sounds like we are going to have to call full-race or shearer to have custom Twin Scroll T3 manifolds made unless someone else knows where to find one.

 

[awdwhip]

This is why I don't freqent this board nearly as much as I used too.... Everyone here seems to be content with the status quo and as soon as someone mentions a new idea or something that hasn't been tried 1000 times before they get flamed for it. I personally think the real reason why no one builds TS T3 manifolds for our cars is the fact that very few people in the DSM community are willing to spend the money for cutting edge performance. Full-Race.com builds Twin scroll kits and manifolds for EVO's and sells them like hot cakes but they do not make TS manifolds or kits for DSM's. Why do you think that is? I hate to say it, but I'm pretty sure it's because most of us are too cheap to buy them. I'm not saying I'm any better, because like most DSMers, I'm cheap and I bought my car because it's a great performance platform with very little initial investment required, but I have also learned after 12 years working on and modifying DSM's that it takes alot of money and research to do it properly. Evo's use the same basic platform as us, but people who can afford to spend 30K+ on a new car also tend to have a lot more cash to throw around for modifications. Hence the huge aftermarket for EVO's. If you register on the evolutionm.net forums and view the evo/turbo/drivetrain forums you will notice lots of guys using/buying/testing new twin scroll t3 and t4 turbo variations and posting dyno results etc... There is at least one guy over there that has taken the initiative to bolt on multiple Twin scroll turbos to the same car and is dynoing all of his results. FULL RACE TWIN SCROLL 30R results and data - evolutionm.net
He hasn't dynoed it yet... but the newest variation that is generating alot of buzz is a twin scroll 35r turbo with a T3 1.06 A/R hotside. You should be able to buy this turbo from full-race or lsdmotorsports for between $1300-$1700 and then have the turbo sent to FP and have the HTA wheel mod done for an additional $400. This should yield a setup that spools much faster than a standard 3582r, has excellent part throttle response and street manners (fun to drive) and make similar power to a gt40 (bushur made over 700whp with his HTA on a 2.0). This is the setup I intend to run on my car very soon if testing shows that the TS 35r HTA combo works, but it sounds like we are going to have to call full-race or shearer to have custom Twin Scroll T3 manifolds made unless someone else knows where to find one.

Thats the same set-up I want to do but the header is unavailable

 

[ceedawg]

Yes. A divided housing turbine has quicker spool. But it doesn't suffer from lower top end potential for a housing of the same shape that is undivided.

The poster was saying a TS housing that would be the same size would have lower topend potential which theoretically would be tru.

If I want to have the spool up or better spool up of say a .63 undivided housing with a combo of better topend it is my understanding that you would want to have a divided housing with a much higher A/R ex .83.97,1.0x to maintain having your topend if not even better top end than the undivided .63 housing. If I'm wrng please correct me on my understanding.

 

[tkelly27]

It seems to me another selling point of this would be the ability to use the lighter EVO turbine wheels that came on some cars. Better spool, better flow. How cool would that be if you could mate that with a bigger compressor or even a garret center section?

 

[DSMunknown]

It seems to me another selling point of this would be the ability to use the lighter EVO turbine wheels that came on some cars. Better spool, better flow. How cool would that be if you could mate that with a bigger compressor or even a garret center section?

It would be happy time in my pantalones, especially if I could get that same technology in an E316G.

 

[jkimes]

Thats the same set-up I want to do but the header is unavailable

Found one! Now if I could only afford $1000 bucks to buy it..

Straight Line Specialties

 

[ceedawg]

Found one! Now if I could only afford $1000 bucks to buy it..

Straight Line Specialties

Bro I could hug the hell outta ya!

 

[jkimes]

Bro I could hug the hell outta ya!

Your welcome! Can't wait to get one of these with a ts 35r. Combined with a well built bottom end this turbo/manifold combination should make for a fun to drive street car (3065 type lag) with huge (650+whp) top end.

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[DirtyBirdRacing]

Hi,

The TS manifold looks great. Has anyone ever had any experience with it or heard of any experiences with it?

Bill