Creating a monster....

[DSM GREENHORN]

You guys have a lot of persistance! At first, I figured that you would just give up when you realized that building a motor isn't like putting Legos together. Well, you haven't and you've proved to everybody that you're for real. I would say that the fact that the motor even ran and boosted and all that is impressive in itself.

I too am contemplating my first motor build (milder), but after reading about your whole project and seeing how everything went, I'm thinking about waiting. There are so many aspects to a project like yours that aren't listed anywhere, or are unique to a certain motor, that something bad is bound to happen. I'm guessinjg that it takes years of experience building 4G63's to actually get it right the first time, not to mention a completely custom build (sort of).

I'm curious as to what the initial budget was and what the actual budget was . Anyway, I hope the second time is better and that you eventually get to launch your "monster". Later.

 

[thekyguy11]

, the actual budget? I believe the owner spent near $9,000 after the purchase of the vehicle. The car was purchased for $6,500 and came pre-dismantled and with a bunch of good parts. Neither the owner or I knew at the time of purchase that there were several problems. Such as a freshly machined block with a nice crack between a cylinder wall and an oil passage, or a clutch that wasnt nearly strong enough, or injectors that are way too small. Plus the expensive catback exhaust was not included as promised by the seller. The car did come with some brand new, really nice looking bronze 17in wheels that will look sexy as hell as soon as the owner can buy some tires.

My friends and family are shocked at my persistence as well, but I feel I am on a mission to get this car working perfectly. Plus, I dont want to see my friend (the owner) take a HUGE financial hit on this. So, I picked up a wrench and got right back to work!

 

[nuggets]

we ain't giving in yet!

 

[GDNF2ET]

OK. After removing the valve cover, I determined there are at least two bent valves. Then I drained the oil and there was a small amount of metal in it, and when I opened up the oil filter, I found a good amount of metal in there too.

SOOOOO...Here is the game plan so far...

Engine is being removed. The block is being stripped down to bare block and brought to the machine shop to be cleaned and have any metal removed from all oil passages/galleries. I have not opened the engine yet, so I don't know the condition of the crank, but I'm guessing it will need to be turned down a little. The engine will be reassembled using brand new bearings and oil pump.

As for the head, all bent valves will be replaced and reground with the matching 5-angle like the rest of the valves. All new "revised" lifters will be replacing the ones in there with xx amount of miles.

Obviously I will be using all new gaskets and a new timing belt. Because I am the builder of the engine I am taking financial responsibility for the parts and machine work (except the lifters).

Does anyone recommend we do anything else while the engine is torn apart?

It seems like a good time to do the 1G head since alot of the work will be repeated to the same head anyway.....

 

[nuggets]

probably a great time to do it, but the financial situation is currently tight. We're going to stick with the new plan and get this car going with the 2g ported head/intake mani. sorry


-alex

 

[bullettdsm]

You guys are FUN-ny. I just stepped into this thread after scanning it (no, I did not read all of it, just bits and pieces). First off, you guys get an A+ for effort and persistence. You have learned so many things on this journey (not just about the DSM, but also about persistence in life etc... sorry to get mystical and philosophical on you). Never give up.

This thread, though long, should be a newbie requirement. Not just to scare people off, but to allow them to see what it really takes to do a rebuild. This chronicles what many have been through but do not put down on paper. When a newbie reads "it was a bi*** but I finally got the engine in" they don't see what the "bi***" was about. Rebuilding an engine is NOT the same as doing a timing belt. There are so many other things to plan ahead for and take into account. So many other things that could go wrong. Though a newbie CAN rebuild an engine, it requires patience, study and time. Lots of time!

Ok, that's my sermon for today , I'll shut my mouth and let them continue on. Just wanted to give some positive reinforcement.

Never give up!
MB

 

[planblars]

actually i agree that this should be a thread that is recomended for the newbie's. I think in this thread there is so much good information passed around plus these guy's were getting told to give up right away and the never did. they have built a hell of a car and they never were afraid to ask even the simplest questions

 

[Matts95TSiAWD]

Is This A 7bolt Motor? Sounds Like You Might Have Some Crankwalk With Your Thrust Bearing Issue And Timing Belt. Pick Up A 2.4l Galant Block For Cheap.

 

[thekyguy11]

Matts95TSiAWD- There is far too much machine work and parts in our current 7-bolt to make the switch right now. Someday, down the road, we will most likely be swapping in a different block. Our thrust bearing being destroyed was not caused by the typical crankwalk that these engines are known for. It was caused by too much pressure from the release arm on the clutch during my attempts to get the clutch to disengage.

 

[Livid]

Wow its almost been a year since u started this project. Props for not giving up! I also learned alot, I enjoyed reading through ALL 9 PAGES..

 

[1stgensleeper]

I agree, way to keep on goin even when you were discouraged by the very people you seeked advice from, im REALLY lookin forward to some vids and some Dyno numbers. all i gotto say (im not sure if its been said already) just cause the car is done, and even after its broken in you BETTER NOT BEAT ON THAT THING UNTILL ITS PROPERLY DYNO TUNED or your year of work is gonna end up sticking out the side of your block

 

[nuggets]

I agree, way to keep on goin even when you were discouraged by the very people you seeked advice from, im REALLY lookin forward to some vids and some Dyno numbers. all i gotto say (im not sure if its been said already) just cause the car is done, and even after its broken in you BETTER NOT BEAT ON THAT THING UNTILL ITS PROPERLY DYNO TUNED or your year of work is gonna end up sticking out the side of your block

That's for sure. It's actually been weird for the past week the car hasn't even been talked about because everythings still getting machined right now. But that's why you guys are here! In the meantime Kyle, TJ, and I have been keeping busy with some Honda shit. Our friend just got .020 shaved off his head, new headgasket, hondata intake gasket (WHICH IS THICK AS ####, WOW!) type r cams and dual valve springs. TJ, decided to just randomly buy a B20 longblock out of the Honda CR-V and we're swapping that in today, and my hatch, well... my window came off track

Other than that, school has started up once again and I hope we have enough time between school, work, women, and drinking to get this talon on the road sometime soon. As soon as all the parts come back from our guy I'll have Kyle do another update.





Here's a lil' picture of what we've been up to in the meantime

 

[thekyguy11]

Ha! That pic is funny cuz you two bastards are havin fun while I'm slaving away on the internet updating this thread!!! You can see me sitting in the corner! (Don't think I didnt join them as soon as I was done!)

 

[thekyguy11]

Well, we now have all the new parts and everything back from the machine shop. After a cool $1000 we're ready to reassemble. New parts include...

New-
oil pump
rod and main bearings
piston rings
timing belt
head gasket
revised lifters
2 new valves

Machine Work-
used crank, straightened and bearing journals turned down
block stripped and all oil passages cleaned
align hone
re-honed cylinders
2 new valves installed (5-angle)

Now i just need to find some time between school and work to put this beast back together.

 

[SpoOLxExO]

How much was the crank turned down?

Its not a comfortable practice to use a ground down crank when building a good engine, but its all you...

Good luck

 

[thekyguy11]

turned down just .010

 

[jott5555]

How much was the crank turned down?

Its not a comfortable practice to use a ground down crank when building a good engine, but its all you...

Good luck

I would go do a little more research before you go spreading mis information like that..

 

[SpoOLxExO]

Research?

Why is recommending not gounding the crank spreading mis-information?

You dont even have built internals.

You obviously dont know who I am. So I won't fault you for being a pretentious prick, making comments that bears no fact or reason. And in front of all these nice people too.

Go to your room.

 

[jott5555]

Research?

Why is recommending not gounding the crank spreading mis-information?

You dont even have built internals.

You obviously dont know who I am. So I won't fault you for being a pretentious prick, making comments that bears no fact or reason. And in front of all these nice people too.

Go to your room.

Sorry mommy...

honestly as far as i am concerned i don't really care who you are.. if you stand so steadfast in your claim that griding your crank is so bad i would like to see proof.. i personally built my own engine. and reground the crank shaft myself, and re hardened it, i take offense in the fact that you say it is an issue when i have yet to see any proof that is it.. and this applies in not only the dsm world but pretty much every automotive aspect from v8 Chevy's to honduh's

so please.. enlighten this pretentious prick with some proof so i can see the error of my ways.

 

[nanokpsi]

How much was the crank turned down?

Its not a comfortable practice to use a ground down crank when building a good engine, but its all you...

Good luck

You can turn our cranks. Just don't turn them too much.

 

[XtReMeToYz]

You can turn our cranks. Just don't turn them too much.

Agree'd, and .010" should be just fine.

 

[zxdude]

hmm.. this is crazy..i ran across this post by chance today.. and I then decided to check the first page to find me as the very first reply.. I cant believe that this thread is still going thats just crazy.. but since I never got a answer.. where is hales corners in WI?

 

[krisj144]

c'mon guy, mapquest, use it.

This thread should be stickied for the newbies. If they have enough persistence to actually read and digest everything they will have some inkling of what these guys have put into this car.

Good to hear you guys are keeping the local machine shops in business too. They've got to love it when you guys walk through the door.

Sure, building an engine isn't like making toast, but it sure as hell isn't all that bad either. I assembled my first engine (a 4g63) on my own with a turned crank and simply followed instructions and took the time to get advice when necessary. The thing has been running like a champ from day 1, no bent valve, no loss of compression, no seized oil pumps, etc...

Bottom line is that these 3 took on a hell of a lot when they decided to 'build a monster' and so far the monster has been kicking their collective asses.

Here's a recommendation for you guys though that are still building the 'monster'. Post your problems before you invent the solutions. I cringed when I read that you 'overtightened the clutch' and 'shimmed the fulcrum' knowing that you would get problems, and sure enough it happened. If you get to a stopping point; stop! Then get on the board and get some advice or make a phone call. Hell, if you need someone to point you in the right direction, just stop trying to climb the learning curve with a full-weight dsm on your back, and take the metaphorical escalator built by the hundreds of DSM enthusiasts who have paved the way. Turn this thread into less of a cautionary tale and more into a description of your learning process.

 

[TalonJohn94]

c'mon guy, mapquest, use it.

This thread should be stickied for the newbies. If they have enough persistence to actually read and digest everything they will have some inkling of what these guys have put into this car.

Good to hear you guys are keeping the local machine shops in business too. They've got to love it when you guys walk through the door.

Sure, building an engine isn't like making toast, but it sure as hell isn't all that bad either. I assembled my first engine (a 4g63) on my own with a turned crank and simply followed instructions and took the time to get advice when necessary. The thing has been running like a champ from day 1, no bent valve, no loss of compression, no seized oil pumps, etc...

Bottom line is that these 3 took on a hell of a lot when they decided to 'build a monster' and so far the monster has been kicking their collective asses.

Here's a recommendation for you guys though that are still building the 'monster'. Post your problems before you invent the solutions. I cringed when I read that you 'overtightened the clutch' and 'shimmed the fulcrum' knowing that you would get problems, and sure enough it happened. If you get to a stopping point; stop! Then get on the board and get some advice or make a phone call. Hell, if you need someone to point you in the right direction, just stop trying to climb the learning curve with a full-weight dsm on your back, and take the metaphorical escalator built by the hundreds of DSM enthusiasts who have paved the way. Turn this thread into less of a cautionary tale and more into a description of your learning process.

Well put, and I hope I see this thing floating around. I might suggest not doing a lot of test and tune on highway 100 though.
(I live in Milwaukee)

 

[anubis]

Good to hear you guys are keeping the local machine shops in business too. They've got to love it when you guys walk through the door.

yeah, that's me too. i get to go in through the back door. then the machinist says, "uh-oh. what's wrong with the laser now, dan?" it's pretty bad when they know you by your first name and what you drive.

Here's a recommendation for you guys though that are still building the 'monster'. Post your problems before you invent the solutions. I cringed when I read that you 'overtightened the clutch' and 'shimmed the fulcrum' knowing that you would get problems, and sure enough it happened. If you get to a stopping point; stop! Then get on the board and get some advice or make a phone call. Hell, if you need someone to point you in the right direction, just stop trying to climb the learning curve with a full-weight dsm on your back, and take the metaphorical escalator built by the hundreds of DSM enthusiasts who have paved the way. Turn this thread into less of a cautionary tale and more into a description of your learning process.

again, nicely said. heed this man's words. that should be posted on the homepage somewhere for everyone to read.