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420A Crankshaft Position Sensor on a 95 Talon ESI

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Kiriyama9000

Probationary Member
5
3
Jul 4, 2010
Dundalk, Maryland
Hello all,
I have been up and down the internets trying to find out how to solve my Talon issue.

Its a 1995 Eagle Talon ESI with the 420A and Auto trans.
The car likes to stall shortly after first starting and randomly why driving thereafter. Most of the time, the engine will completely cut while coming to a stop or after having been stopped. If the engine stalls while accelerating or at speed, the CEL turns on for an instant and the car makes a quick stutter, but continues to run.

From what I've read, this is very common in these cars, but no one makes any definitive answers on what to do.

I've tried purchasing a new Crankshaft Position Sensor, however none of the shops in town carry the style that I've seen on this car. The sensor on the car has a small, oval shaped connector with three small round pins. The sensor that I've seen for sale just about everywhere online and in stores is larger, more rectangular shaped and has three flat pins.

These things are expensive and I hope to not have to buy every sensor to find the right one. I went to a Junkyard yesterday and looked at similar era eclipses only to find they had the rectangular type and not the oval-like one we have.

Whats the deal? Why are there 2 styles for the same model year?!

Thank you!

BTW: I just replaced the Camshaft Position Sensor and the results are the same. At least that is one factor of the puzzle that I don't need to worry about.
 
The plugs were replaced sometime ago as I thought they may have been contributing to the issue, but they made no difference.

From everything that I've read (this forum, others, google, mechanics, etc), bad CPS's are a common fault with these cars. The talon exhibits all the same symptoms that are listed in other threads (dips in RPMs into stall shortly after starting and when coming to a stop or slowing down, poor gas mileage, occasional rough starts). If either sensor fails, the computer won't read properly and not know when to fire.

A former Chrysler mechanic lives in one of the houses across from me. When he was still working, he serviced Eagles and said that the CPS and Cam Sensors will eventually go bad in these cars.

Most of the time, the car will fire right back up, but in the past week or two, it has taken more persuasion to start. The car is parked until this is fixed. I don't want my fiancée stalling in an intersection...

Thanks for the time!
 
my car does the EXACT same thing and i have been dealing with it for a while. some days it will do it like once or twice but some days it will do it around 10-15 times while driving.

If you fix it PLEASE let me know how you did it
 
my car does the EXACT same thing and i have been dealing with it for a while. some days it will do it like once or twice but some days it will do it around 10-15 times while driving.

If you fix it PLEASE let me know how you did it
I'll definitely report back.

I just learned a lot from an online chat with CI Motorsports. The guy there told me that the connectors are different for models built late in 1995 and up. DSM switched them when things went OBDII. The 95 Talon I'm working on is OBDI. I also learned that the harness is long enough to be pulled towards the top of the engine. Splicing the newer style connector shouldn't be a problem now!

Hopefully I'll have this done tonight. If so, I'll post the results shortly afterwards.
 
I'll definitely report back.

I just learned a lot from an online chat with CI Motorsports. The guy there told me that the connectors are different for models built late in 1995 and up. DSM switched them when things went OBDII. The 95 Talon I'm working on is OBDI. I also learned that the harness is long enough to be pulled towards the top of the engine. Splicing the newer style connector shouldn't be a problem now!

Hopefully I'll have this done tonight. If so, I'll post the results shortly afterwards.

Sweet! if it is the cam sensor then i will be ordering one soon!
 
SUCCESS!!!

It was the crankshaft position sensor!
I replaced it this afternoon.
Since replacing the sensor, the car has yet to do anything like it was before. The idles are nice, the RPM's don't dive and the car has yet to stall.

If you have OBDII, this job is really easy. If you're working on OBDI like me, this is annoying.
I'll post pics and what not tomorrow.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

This is what you need to do if you have a 420A OBDI engine to replace the Crankshaft Position Sensor. I was working on a 1995 Eagle Talon ESi.

If your Talon/Eclipse/Avenger/etc... is OBDII, your job is simple. Just pull the old connector out and put the new one in. The connector you'll find at your local parts store will most likely be the newer, rectangular style with three flat pins.
The OBDI style, which is circular and has three tiny round pins, needs to be retrofitted to the rectangular style.


Note: This is a dirty and awkward job. You will be reaching into some tight spaces and moving about is awkward. Get a light of some sort, preferably one you don't have to hold. Socket extensions will be more than handy too. Do what is necessary to keep yourself clean... or if you like being dirty, never mind.

Part 1 - Disconnecting sensors and freeing the cable harness
1. Lift and secure the front end of the car using preferred method (ramps, stands, etc..).
2. Disconnect battery and disconnect intake piping from throttle body (you'll see why).

3. Climb underneath the engine block and disconnect the Crankshaft Position Sensor. Its the connector just above the oil filter. Once disconnected, remove the sensor. You need a 10mm socket to remove the one bolt that holds it in place.

4. Disconnect the cables from the alternator. Depress the tab on the main connector and then pull the plug. A 10mm socket is needed to remove the bolt from the ground cable.
5. Disconnect the remaining connectors along the harness. I do not know off hand what these sensors do, but they're obviously important. Take care not to break them. There are plastic clips on the top of each coupling that you need to lift up to remove the connector. If I remember correctly, there are 5 total connections that need to be unhooked to free the harness.

6. Once the harness is not connected to any sensors or components on the back of the block, carefully snake the harness to the top of the engine. You should be able to get to the harness by reaching behind and below the throttle body. Take care as there are tubes and other things that inhibit you from just pulling the harness up all willy-nilly. Things should look like this now:
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Part 2 - Changing the Crankshaft Position Sensor connector
Now you need red crimps, a cable crimper (the one I used crimps, strips, and cuts), some heat-shrink tubing, and a lighter.
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This is the sensor I bought. It was 60 some bucks from Pep Boys and came with the new style connector.
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See the difference? (Damn you DSM!)
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To start, go ahead and strip some of the coating off the ends of the new connector wires and crimp the ends.
I decided to keep the full length on the new connector wires just in case I screwed up. If you're comfortable in cutting to the length you need, go for it.
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Now is a good time to look at the cables going to the old connector. Take note of the color order in comparison with the new cables and connector.
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Cut the old connector off close to the connector itself. You want as much cable to work with as possible. Make sure to leave some cable on the old part though, so you can reference the color order for when you connect the new part.
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Put a piece of heat shrink tubing on the cable and move it out of the way for now.
Strip off the coating at the ends of the cable and get ready to crimp.
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Double check your wire order in conjunction with the old part and match with the new one. The colors from the new wires probably won't be the same as the current wires, but you just need to get the order right.
Once you're sure, go ahead and get crimping!
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Use a lighter and wrap the newly crimped connectors in the heat shrink.
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(I did this sloppy, I think, but it should be good enough. Electrical tape can used too.)

Now you're home free!!!!
Carefully snake the harness back down where you pulled it from. Be mindful to not damage any of the cables or anything else.

Reconnect everything you unplugged and bolt in the new Crankshaft Position Sensor. Putting a little bit of motor oil on the sensor is a good idea as it will make it a little easier to insert. Make sure to connect the alternator back up and bolt in the ground cable.

Once you've done that, use zip-ties to cinch up the excess cable from the new connector. I just bundled it up and zipped it to the harness.

Double check everything on the back side of the block.
You don't want to have to climb under there again, right?

Once you've done that, hook the intake piping back up and reconnect the battery.

Fire it up and see what happens!

--------------
This is what worked for me. This sensor isn't a cure all in every case, but it was in mine. The Cam Sensor can cause similar issues. This sensor is easy to replace and a little cheaper, so changing probably isn't a bad idea any way.

Thanks for your time!!!
 
Last edited:
YES! i will check this out. do you know what years had the OBDI and the OBDII?
 
I know this is old topic but wow, thank you for your write up. You helped me get my new to me eclipse running like a champ today!
 
All cars sold in the U.S. after Jan 1st, 1996 have OBDII engines. If your car is model year 1996 and up, you have OBDII.
Negative i have a 96 mitsu 2g 420a and am have similar problems but I am positive that i don't have OBDII but anyways has any one actually found the right part any where because ive looked every where i can thing of and cant find a 3 round pin connector
 
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