Crank won't turn to align timing marks - need help!

[tight_tsi]

I bought a '90 Talon Tsi AWD recently with an overheated engine that no longer starts. They took the battery so I didn't get a chance to try it myself. I pulled the engine, and was trying to align the timing marks to take the t-belt off so I can remove the head. It was going smoothly the first couple of turns with a 1/2" ratchet until it just stopped and won't turn anymore. I can stand on the ratchet and it still won't move. It will back off counter-clockwise but clockwise will only go to this point. Should I cut the belt off and remove the head that way?? Or am I doing something else wrong??

 

[Staytuned]

Timing marks are the least of your worries by the sound of it. Get that head off and see if you have any piston to valve contact.

 

[talonracn49]

Cut the belt off and remove the head. If you were standing on the ratchet, then you have internal clearance issues.

Plus, everything will move when you take the belt off anyway, so getting it to the right point is pointless.

 

[steve]

I can stand on the ratchet and it still won't move.

What exactly did you hope to accomplish by doing that? Break it some more?

You don't even have to cut the belt, just remove the tensioner and unlock the tensioner pully and the bell will pretty much fall off.

Make sure to read the timing belt VFAQ untill you understand it before trying to put a new belt back on. Let us know how many belt valves were in that head when it get back from the machine shop.

Steve

 

[tight_tsi]

Got the head off tonight - here are the pictures to describe what was found. Can the head be saved or does it have to be completely replaced??

 

[tight_tsi]

Here is the pic of the head -

 

[Rex2342]

It's hard to tell from the small pic of the head but it doesn't look like it can be saved. Try getting a closer pic of the damaged area. Also drop that piston to BDC and check the cylinder wall for damage too.

 

[Hardin]

essiantials are fuel, compressions, spark......

 

[tight_tsi]

I found a used head that was cleaned up and stripped down but comes with springs, valves, retainers. My question is how do you know if it is a 1g or 2g head??

 

[oldman]

essiantials are fuel, compressions, spark......

What is your point? Most of your pointless posts that you made today in attempt to drive up your post count have been deleted but I would like to hear your explanation on this one.

 

[98evoIIIpwr]

I found a used head that was cleaned up and stripped down but comes with springs, valves, retainers. My question is how do you know if it is a 1g or 2g head??

If it's a 2G head then the exhaust ports will be bigger and the intake ports smaller then that of your head. 1G contrary to that.

Unfortunately I had the same problem with my old motor. Floated a valve a little too much and it broke and got smashed in between the head and the pistons.

My head was nowhere near saveable and at that point I just bought Ross pistons and Eagle Rods... Best time to upgrade it is when it breaks is my philosophy. You might want to consider a BS removal at this point also..that is is you havent already done it.

 

[98evoIIIpwr]

What is your point? Most of your pointless posts that you made today in attempt to drive up your post count have been deleted but I would like to hear your explanation on this one.

you dont get it...

I guess he wanted to prove that he really does know the process of a 4 stroke combustion engine...

Sorry, I feel a bit froggy tonight... The anticipation of my 9 day vacation and the trip to Lake Havasu is killing me.

 

[No_Skillz]

Ugh... those pictures made me literally nauseous. Let us know how it goes.

 

[tight_tsi]

If it's a 2G head then the exhaust ports will be bigger and the intake ports smaller then that of your head. 1G contrary to that.

Unfortunately I had the same problem with my old motor. Floated a valve a little too much and it broke and got smashed in between the head and the pistons.

My head was nowhere near saveable and at that point I just bought Ross pistons and Eagle Rods... Best time to upgrade it is when it breaks is my philosophy. You might want to consider a BS removal at this point also..that is is you havent already done it.

Here is the link to a cylinder head I found on eBay:

Click here to see pics of cylinder head on eBay

It happens to be only 55 miles away from me so I could pick it up locally. There is basically no description on the head in the ad and the guy selling it doesn't know much about it either. Can you guys tell from the pics of it which generation it is from?? For the price of it though, I guess if it is a 2g head it would still get the job done.

I agree with your philosophy as well - if it breaks, upgrade it! I have been trying to figure out which is a good rod/piston setup that I can afford. I already talked to a machine shop about boring out the block .020 and having it checked out. If I buy the head on eBay I am going to have them check it out at the same time.

I am seriously considering the BS removal as well since my engine is removed and now would be the best time to do it. I have been looking at vfaq quite a bit - it looks challenging but the benefits would be worth it I think.

Being a newbie - is there anything else that I should consider doing while the engine is out?? Already have an upgraded clutch in mind, BS removal, new timing belt, tensioner, water pump, etc.

 

[98evoIIIpwr]

Here is the link to a cylinder head I found on eBay:

Click here to see pics of cylinder head on eBay

It happens to be only 55 miles away from me so I could pick it up locally. There is basically no description on the head in the ad and the guy selling it doesn't know much about it either. Can you guys tell from the pics of it which generation it is from?? For the price of it though, I guess if it is a 2g head it would still get the job done.

I agree with your philosophy as well - if it breaks, upgrade it! I have been trying to figure out which is a good rod/piston setup that I can afford. I already talked to a machine shop about boring out the block .020 and having it checked out. If I buy the head on eBay I am going to have them check it out at the same time.

I am seriously considering the BS removal as well since my engine is removed and now would be the best time to do it. I have been looking at vfaq quite a bit - it looks challenging but the benefits would be worth it I think.

Being a newbie - is there anything else that I should consider doing while the engine is out?? Already have an upgraded clutch in mind, BS removal, new timing belt, tensioner, water pump, etc.

A couple of things you might consider when the motors out is to get ARP bolts all around. If you buy upgraded Rods they usually come with ARP bolts. You want to get main bolts also.

The guy at the local machine shop built a few DSM's in his day and he advised me on getting Eagle Rods and Ross Pistons. They might not be able to hold the most power but they are reliable. He built a 525hp awd Talon and 2 years running he hasnt had any issues. With that power Im impressed.

You can always get your crank knife edged and cryo treated.

The BS removal is a lot easier then it looks. The hardest part is getting access the the areas needed to do the work. If the motors going to be out then its simple. I could do it in 20 min with the motor out.

 

[tight_tsi]

The guy at the local machine shop built a few DSM's in his day and he advised me on getting Eagle Rods and Ross Pistons. They might not be able to hold the most power but they are reliable. He built a 525hp awd Talon and 2 years running he hasnt had any issues. With that power Im impressed.

I have been researching and now thinking about installing 2g pistons with my 1g rods. Here is my question - to install the 2g pistons (besides the machine work to connect them to the 1g rods), do you have to leave the block alone or can you have it bored .020 and still install the 2g pistons?? I don't see any damage to the cylinder wall itself, so I might be able to get away with not having any work done but if it needs to be bored over, are the 2g pistons still going to be an option??

The BS removal is a lot easier then it looks. The hardest part is getting access the the areas needed to do the work. If the motors going to be out then its simple. I could do it in 20 min with the motor out.

Yes, the engine is completely out. Yesterday I got everything off of it so now it is just the block, the crank, rods + pistons which I am going to remove next. The BS removal does appear to be fairly easy at this point now that I can see everything.

 

[prplhz96]

What is your point? Most of your pointless posts that you made today in attempt to drive up your post count have been deleted but I would like to hear your explanation on this one.

I second that request

 

[tight_tsi]

Ok - another question I can't seem to find an answer to by searching the forums. I called the mitsu dealer and talked to a parts guy - he can get me 2G pistons and rings but he shows 2 options/sizes. One that is 0.50 and one that is 1.00. Price is the same either way but he wanted a VIN # until I told him they are going into a 6 bolt engine. He said I needed to measure something-or-another so he knew which ones to get me. 4 pistons @ $63.42 and rings @ $170.01. Which size do I need?? I didn't know there where different options available.

 

[steve]

I believe he can get you three different options. Standard, .5mm over (.020), and 1.0mm over (.040).

What size you want depends on if and how much your going to bore the block to make the cylinders straight and round.

Steve

 

[RiceKiller_TSi]

Ok - another question Which size do I need?? I didn't know there where different options available.

Size will depend on how much material needs to be removed to make the cylinders be up to specification (aka round). If you don't see any visible damage you should be able to go .20 over with no problem. Then just purchase the coinciding sized pistons and rings. Since you're essentially rebuilding this engine I would highly recommend getting a new front case and upgraded (revised) non ticking lifters for the head. Also changing out the knock sensor is a breeze with the engine out of the car. Also if you've ever wanted prothane engine mounts now is a good time to do this as well.

Be sure to leave that block at the machine shop to be checked and to be hot tanked. You'd hate to have metal particles from the damage floating around in your newly rebuilt engine.

 

[steve]

I just want to make sure I understand properly. If he can get me 3 different sizes, and I want to use the 2g pistons, it can't be bored .020 over and still use the 2g pistons, right? I would have to get pistons that are .020 to match? So to use 2g pistons, I could have the block honed and get the standard size rings....correct?

The pistons and rings are a set regardless if they are for a 1G, 2G, or EVO. So you want one of the three sizes for both the pistons and the rings. You should measure your cylinders or talk to your machinist before ordering the pistons and rings. I didn't notice if it was mentioned but the 1G rods have to be machined to fit the 2G pistons. Somethng else to discuss with the machine shop.

Steve

Steve