Could use some turbo info to make the best choice to reach my 500+ awd goal

[RACER-X]

That is insane. I can't imagine how thin the metal is along the outer ring of the machined groove the compressor sits in....not to mention how much machining had to be done to the compressor alone just to get it to fit. The flipside of the wheel had to be machined, the shaft bore had to be machined, and so did the front of the wheel just to get a locknut on. You can see a little bit of flat-spotting on the fins near the hub area where it had been machined flat just to be able to get a nut on it.

For those who don't understand, on the flip side of this photo there's a machined groove for the cover's snap ring. Machining from the snap ring surface along with machining the backplate to fit has left the housing wafer-thin in that area.

Red arrow = the end of a "safe" machinable area. The FP Red's 76mm exducer is within this spec...barely. So now we know it's possible, but it may not be safe to do such a thing as the housing could easily crack and the turbo would basically explode, sending shrapnel everywhere.

Honestly with all the necessary machining to the wheel, cover, and housing....it would probably have been cheaper to buy a used 35R from a trusted source.

Actually that area didn't look paper thin at all, didn't eve look like it had been machined... wish I would have gotten a pic of it to post. And I didnt pay for all the work on that turbo. The guy I bought it from is the owner of inline racing a speed shop here in the Tx. area it was his car and he made the turbo for it and I later bought the car.

 

[asrdave]

To the OP
So wait this turbo in question is actually a 35R compressor wheel with a TD06H wheel? This does sounds like such a kick ass combo

 

[JusMX141]

To the OP
So wait this turbo in question is actually a 35R compressor wheel with a TD06H wheel? This does sounds like such a kick ass combo

Sounds like a recipe for some ridiculous lag to me considering the FP Red (smaller 60-1 59mm/76mm compressor) reached full boost around 4500 on most applications!

O.P.- can you enlighten us on the full boost RPM of this unit on your car?

 

[JusMX141]

FYI - several recent post reports within this thread. It will be cleaned of anything that does not deal directly with the turbo the O.P.'s currently running, or positive input from any source. By positive input I mean you must be running the turbo you're recommending yourself, or have direct access to someone running the turbo you're recommending with hard evidence to back it up. Bashing of other members will not be tolerated.

Play nice!

 

[RACER-X]

Sounds like a recipe for some ridiculous lag to me considering the FP Red (smaller 60-1 59mm/76mm compressor) reached full boost around 4500 on most applications!

O.P.- can you enlighten us on the full boost RPM of this unit on your car?

Yes Sir I can.

Car was a sled, didn't see boost still 3800-4000 rpms... not full boost, we're talking no longer reading vacuum and just starting to register boost. 1st and 2nd gear were very short, usually bounced off the rev limiter in first frequently. Have no idea when I'd hit full boost, did ever have my laptop in my car the few times I got to stretch the legs. I was running 24psi and was over running my 720cc inj ugly, talking 97% duty cycle. Was looking to buy bigger injectors when my compressor wheel met its demise. On a 4,500 rpm launch it would smoke all 4 Michelin Pilots.

So yes the turbo was laggy but had an ungodly amount of power. Just wish I could have had some 1250's or bigger so I could have had it tuned to see what it would have done with more boost. As it was the previous owner made 420whp on 24psi... like I said not sure what rpm range he was in.

 

[Boosted98gsx]

Here's a log for your reference. If you want available low end torque, a ball bearing turbo is the only way to go.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/152874358-post46.html

 

[ed1380]

3rd:
5(psi)---2500
10(psi)--2900
15(psi)--3150
20(psi)--3250
25(psi)--3400

That is mr peeper's hx35 on a stock 2.0. Not bad for a sub par turbo
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/drag-strip/405768-my-story.html

 

[RACER-X]

Seriously, stop the bickering over turbos. Holset are good turbos, and there is no need to mention how good a fp turbo is.. We all know the two turbos as well as all the others have there pros and cons... with that stated can we just move along and stop beating a dead horse on the holset vs. XX turbo debate.

All these deleted posts is confusing me. I see that there is a post and try to go to that page and it wont let me go to page 2 cause post was deleted.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Here's a log for your reference. If you want available low end torque, a ball bearing turbo is the only way to go.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/152874358-post46.html

On a 2.3L, as you were kind enough to omit

My journal bearing S200sx 59-74 was seeing 37-38psi @ 4600 in third on a 2.0 with some big cams and meth in the BEP .55 housing. That was with 30*F ambient temps less than 1000ft above sea level

I could free rev and make 3-5psi.

In the bigger twinscroll housing I was moving 50lbs/min @ 23psi, and maxed out the wheel at 67.x lbs/min on a calibrated Evo8 MAF.

All this on a smaller compressor, that cost about half as much. Try not being so close minded and use such definitive statements when this is a grey area.

Ball bearing is certainly not the only way to go, and not all of us like getting bent over for a new CHRA instead of just rebuilding.

There are advantages to both, which if you were honest enough to admit perhaps it would be easier to take you seriously.

There is nothing wrong about having pride in your build and your choices, but you recommend it as the be all end all solution. HTA is not worth the premium either, I would rather go EFR for the price.

 

[RACER-X]

Which just proves it's a status symbol. You spent $1500+ on a turbo to run 11's when a 16g could do that. Maybe all that lag is what makes you so cranky. BTW that holset runs 10's

And did you happen to see how many 35r's there weer in the 10's.. there are more hta 35rs in the 10s and even a few 35r's in the 9's

Does this matter, does this make one turbo better then the other... most would say yes, but unless that's your name, your time, your turbo, who cares.

Holset for what it is, a cheap turbo, is a badass turbo, and for the money a GT35r and hta 35 are beasts.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Well, theres a 35R that has gone 8.9x @ 163 too. But the turbo is but a part of the setup.

Your state goal is only 500awhp, and you are concerned with the boost threshold. A 35r is not exactly ideal, 8 years ago I would've probably considered that appropriate. Now we have options. Technically a 3076r would do it if you were able to use every last bit of that airflow to its fullest.. or ran E85.

A BorgWarner may be your best bet. The S200sx 56-70 in the BEP .55 bolt on or .70 T3 housing would do it on pump and with 18G-like spool and recovery.

 

[JusMX141]

Seriously, stop the bickering over turbos.

No shit.

This is the LAST time I will remove personal off-topic bickering from this thread. Next step is closure.

 

[JusMX141]

Yes Sir I can.

Car was a sled, didn't see boost still 3800-4000 rpms... not full boost, we're talking no longer reading vacuum and just starting to register boost. 1st and 2nd gear were very short, usually bounced off the rev limiter in first frequently. Have no idea when I'd hit full boost, did ever have my laptop in my car the few times I got to stretch the legs. I was running 24psi and was over running my 720cc inj ugly, talking 97% duty cycle. Was looking to buy bigger injectors when my compressor wheel met its demise. On a 4,500 rpm launch it would smoke all 4 Michelin Pilots.

So yes the turbo was laggy but had an ungodly amount of power. Just wish I could have had some 1250's or bigger so I could have had it tuned to see what it would have done with more boost. As it was the previous owner made 420whp on 24psi... like I said not sure what rpm range he was in.

That's actually not as bad as I initially thought!

Wonder why FP hadn't considered using the 35R compressor wheel in their old-school Red if it spools nearly the same as the 60-1 but has the potential to generate more airflow?

 

[bastarddsm]

That's actually not as bad as I initially thought!

Wonder why FP hadn't considered using the 35R compressor wheel in their old-school Red if it spools nearly the same as the 60-1 but has the potential to generate more airflow?

yeah, how about not more ####inh holset vs. FP shit. Jesus christ.

Anyway, Jus, what is the shaft size on a GT35? I think these mitsu garrett hybrids are kick ass. If my HY setup hadn't worked out, I'd be all over something like this. I wonder if someone like bullseye could custom make a billet wheel with a mitsu shaft spec. What does something like this have in it for a thrust bearing?

I know everyone and their brother has a hardon for huge inducer, ball bearing, twin scroll this or that. But from a bang for the buck, and compatibility stand point, I don't think anything touches the bolt on hybrids. And with the new technologies, and the oem parts shortages causing us to actually use the new technologies, they can be even more potent than ever.

I know I'm a dreamer, but it would be cool as shit to create a 10cm dsm turbine housing that has a VNT built into it. Couple that with this turbo, and you'd have something.

 

[JusMX141]

Anyway, Jus, what is the shaft size on a GT35? I think these mitsu garrett hybrids are kick ass. If my HY setup hadn't worked out, I'd be all over something like this. I wonder if someone like bullseye could custom make a billet wheel with a mitsu shaft spec.

I'm not exactly sure- I don't mess around with ball bearing turbos that much because they're not rebuildable. I could measure the shaft on my SBR GT12....I'd imagine the 30R and 35R shaft bores are the same.

What does something like this have in it for a thrust bearing?

It would have to be some upgraded plate with two oiling holes, either yellow-metal or steel. A standard small-collar Mitsu thrust plate with one oiling hole isn't going to withstand this abuse.

I know everyone and their brother has a hardon for huge inducer, ball bearing, twin scroll this or that. But from a bang for the buck, and compatibility stand point, I don't think anything touches the bolt on hybrids. And with the new technologies, and the oem parts shortages causing us to actually use the new technologies, they can be even more potent than ever.

To some degree....it has to have a good-flowing turbine wheel and housing combo.

We have hard evidence that PTE's bolt-on housing can't flow more than 48-50 lb/min with a T31 (Stage 3) Garrett wheel, and we also have hard evidence that a 30R turbine (almost the same spec as a T31) can flow 65 lb/min using FP's bolt-on turbine housing.

I know I'm a dreamer, but it would be cool as shit to create a 10cm dsm turbine housing that has a VNT built into it. Couple that with this turbo, and you'd have something.

I think an amazing setup would involve the 12cm twin-scroll Evo X turbine housing with larger turbine wheel (TD06SL2 or TD06H) and a monster compressor wheel. It would require a custom-built manifold, but this is by all means within the capability of some members of this site who exhibit amazing fabrication skills.

 

[bastarddsm]

We have hard evidence that PTE's bolt-on housing can't flow more than 48-50 lb/min with a T31 (Stage 3) Garrett wheel, and we also have hard evidence that a 30R turbine (almost the same spec as a T31) can flow 65 lb/min using FP's bolt-on turbine housing.

I think an amazing setup would involve the 12cm twin-scroll Evo X turbine housing with larger turbine wheel (TD06SL2 or TD06H) and a monster compressor wheel. It would require a custom-built manifold, but this is by all means within the capability of some members of this site who exhibit amazing fabrication skills.

Yeah, but we all know that PTE shit is garbage, and a T31 is 1970's tech. People were doing 60lbs/min on a tdo6h and a 8cm dsm housing. Surely the new turbines FP is having made would flow better in a dsm housing.

I think the evo X deal would be cool, but for some reason, I just don't like the idea fabricated manifolds and ext gates. on a street car. I wonder if the oem evo mani would fit, other than putting the MAf on the wrong side. The only problem is even a 16g can make more power than most dsmers can afford. If I had lots of money to play, I'd be all over trying some of this shit.

 

[91stocker]

even a 16g can make more power than most dsmers can afford or need

 

[agentorange313]

I wonder if the oem evo mani would fit, other than putting the MAf on the wrong side.

The manifold flange is different, obviously, but 94awdcoupe took a dsm flange and welded to an evo10 manifold:

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http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/newbie-forum/323777-1st-twin-scroll-20g-dsm-evo-10-turbo.html

If I had lots of money to play, I'd be all over trying some of this shit.

Me too......me too

 

[JusMX141]

I think the evo X deal would be cool, but for some reason, I just don't like the idea fabricated manifolds and ext gates. on a street car.

No external gate- it would use the internal flapper on the Evo X turbine housing.

I wonder if the oem evo mani would fit, other than putting the MAf on the wrong side.

You're thinking of the Evo VIII / IX.

The Evo X turbo is mounted to the rear of the engine, with the inlet on the driver's side. That translates into the inlet being on the passenger's side if you move the turbo to the front of the engine.

Trouble is no Evo X manifold has a hope of fitting a DSM...any manifold you use would require some sort of fabrication.

 

[EclipseOwner95]

I was just browsing FP's website and saw this, looks like this might have been where that Greddy turbo with 35R sized wheels came from.

TUGreddy18g82HTA - Upgrade TDO6 Mitsubishi based GReddy turbo to 82mm HTA billet compressor, 67mm turbine and rebuild - $1099

 

[vash_1010]

I think these mitsu garrett hybrids are kick ass. If my HY setup hadn't worked out, I'd be all over something like this. I wonder if someone like bullseye could custom make a billet wheel with a mitsu shaft spec.

I'll look into this.