Compound Turbo E85 Steams BAD!

[viperlp01]

I have an issue I would like to pick some guys brains with. I got my Talon moving with the compound setup. The issue is I smoke pure steam really bad. Might I add that i has been 100 degrees in Michigan with extremely high humidity along with a high dew point. When the car is cold I get zero steam but as the car heats up its like a head gasket blew on me but I never loose coolant nor pressurize the cooling system. This engine ran perfectly fine last year before I put it up. I did notice a pretty decent amount of water would come out of the side exit last year but it never had time to sit in the exhaust. I am also running aluminum exhaust which I would imagine cools pretty fast when I am moving.

Anyone experience a lot of steam with there e85 dsm's??

 

[94awdcoupe]

what was the issue?

 

[tazndrew04]

^^ I run e85 and I've never had a problem with this "steam" that your talking about. Could you elaborate a little more about what your talking about

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

Double check the crank case breather system routing?? I had something that sounds similar to your problem when I had it hooked up wrong about 5 years ago.

 

[Gasolinebaptism]

Check the water port that comes through the rear driver side of the head and is supposed to be blocked off by the IM and sealed by it's gasket. that seal can fail, especially if you are using a heat barrier.

I find it to be a good practice to just fill the hole with epoxy and give a good flat finish to ensure that the IM will seal to the head.

 

[viperlp01]

It's the big turbo cooling the exhaust enough to condense the gas. I do have a little oil smoke sometimes as well

 

[forcefed86]

My e85 3.8 would do something similar, but only when cold or if I let it sit a few months in humid temps. Usually, once it warmed up and cleared the moisture from the oil it was fine. The longer the fuel sits the more moisture it absorbs. E85 degrades like a mofo in humid areas.

Have you done a compression test?

Have excessive water in the oil when drained? Does the oil smell like coolant? Do you even run coolant? May try running straight coolant (if oyu don't already). If you can smell it clearly in the exhaust and it smokes worse, I'd say you have a problem.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Two turbines taking enough heat out of the exhaust could do this just fine.

That's a real efficient set-up there.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

do you run any methinol injection to cool all that boost? thats all i could think of..

 

[viperlp01]

No meth just pump E85. It has had a quite a few gallons ran through the system. I think the E85 is good just the exhaust is cooling rapidly.

Did all the tests to make sure it wasn't coolant. Compression tested 185 across the board. No bubbles in coolant. Doesn't push coolant. Last pass of DSE my rad cap loosened up somehow(most likely the vibration of the 2 step over and over again) just added water and water wetter and tighten the cap and she is good.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

No meth just pump E85. It has had a quite a few gallons ran through the system. I think the E85 is good just the exhaust is cooling rapidly.

Did all the tests to make sure it wasn't coolant. Compression tested 185 across the board. No bubbles in coolant. Doesn't push coolant. Last pass of DSE my rad cap loosened up somehow(most likely the vibration of the 2 step over and over again) just added water and water wetter and tighten the cap and she is good.

They do always have that water droplet by the E-85 Logo E-85 already burns a lot colder then gas so i will have to agree with a few posts up, two turbines could very well cool it that much. Although i would think each turbine itself would create heat.

 

[viperlp01]

They absorb the heat as energy to spin the turbine. Right before the turbo heat would increase because of the restriction of the turbine but right after there is a big expansion for the gas to lose heat.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

They absorb the heat as energy to spin the turbine. Right before the turbo heat would increase because of the restriction of the turbine but right after there is a big expansion for the gas to lose heat.

makes sense, your primary must be running very cold then, have you thought about putting an EGT probe in the hot pipe between turbine housings?

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Turbines take the energy of the fluid and convert it.

In this case hot, pressurized exhaust gas (mass) and transform it into mechanical torque, which spins the compressor wheel.

Heat = the presence of energy to put it in laymans terms, a given mass with a given temperature has a given amount of energy.

The turbine takes that energy out to perform work, but because the amount of time that exhaust mass is subject to the wheel is so short we don't normally pull enough out of it with a single small turbine stage and the remainder of the exhaust system will get quite warm from all the wasted energy.

In this example (series turbochargers) with a second, larger turbine stage is then going to take a good portion of the remainder of the energy in the exhaust mass that wasn't caught and used by the first stage.

This creates enough of a change in temperature that the gaseous h2o and other components come out in vapor/droplet form, because it underwent a phase change (exothermic reaction)

The pressure delta across the wheels also play a big part as viperlp01 mentioned

 

[marcman804]

At the DSE event when you were staging it almost looked like water was pouring out of your exhaust, I never seen anything like that before.

 

[black_gst]

at the dse event when you were staging it almost looked like water was pouring out of your exhaust, i never seen anything like that before.

anyone have a video of this pass? I would like to see that

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Couldn't really see it on the video but check this shot out:

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[Technoklipz]

Looks like the gases are condensing at such a rapid pace that they are coming out as a liquid state. Maybe you will need to take it all a part and put it back together and see if stops. I don't think it is much too worry about unless you have water in your fuel. Your ethanol mix is pure or contaminated with water? You might could check that out just to be on the safe side. Good luck!


By the way, nice runs at the shootout. You made it look easy.

 

[LandSpeed-DSM]

Read above, its happening because he has two well sized turbine stages taking the heat energy out.. which is causing the phase change.

 

[brian9397gsx]

That and i bet the aluminum exhuast is playing a big role in this also since it will transfer whatever heat is left quicker than say stainless steel.

 

[1SLOW93TURBO]

Your car was a sleeper. I watched from the big end and you couldn't hear it as you went past the finish line. Wish I could've worked out the bugs with my Laser whereas we would've had a good race! FWIW I run 4" aluminum exhaust with E85 and I do not get any moisture so I doubt that has anything to do with it. I think Landspeed is on the right track.

 

[viperlp01]

The car is super quiet. That also has to do with the two chargers. The car has full 3.5in exhaust with no muffler(rule requirement... I am sorry but didn't have time or money to buy one).

That would have been one hell of a race man. Zimmer and you both sporting 9 sec street cars would have made it pretty interesting.

 

[Archer Fabrications]

ill be on the 9 second street car group someday when i get my tune worked out and a few more supporting mods.

 

[black_gst]

Couldn't really see it on the video but check this shot out:

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WOW! Thats crazy, never seen that before

I get steam on E85 mostly on startup though but i haven't really monitored it closely

 

[forcefed86]

Pretty typical to see condensation and unburnt fuel pooling in the bottom of the muffler/pipes spray out on a hard launch at the track. I see it all the time on pretty much every kind of setup/fuel imaginable.