Clutch install and bad mechanic?

[LL GST]

Ok, so I needed to have my master and slave cylinders replaced recently, I brought it to a mechanic my cousin recommended me to go to, the shop didnt look very reputable but the guy was really nice. He charged me 997 bucks for both cylinders, half a gallon of clutch fluid, aswell as a full timing belt change. I got my car back and everything ran fine and the clutch pedal felt better then ever. So I have 80k miles and I'm still running on the original clutch so it's obviously worn and I'm not always nice to it, but today, the day after I got it back, I was downshifting on the freeway from 5th to 4th and I couldn't get it into gear, I got it into 1st gear after I pulled over and my clutch was slipping so bad I was at about 5k rpms going 10 mph, before that my clutch never slipped (atleast not enough to notice) it did have problems catching when shifting especially in lower gears but no slipping, so I have to get my car towed to the shop and he said he would normally charge 600 for labor on my car by the book but he would hook me up for 450, now my question is.. This whole situation seems sketchy, he seems like a straight shooter and did solid job on my t belt and the pedal pressure was better then it's ever been, but is it possible that he tampered with some stuff to get me back in the shop? I find it weird that my clutch just randomly gets porked the day after I get it back. Also, for being 'hooked up' 450 for labor seems steep, did I overpay for the t belt and master/slave cylinder install and/or would I be for the clutch install (oh, flywheel aswell). Thank you very much for your time reading this, and any responses. They are very much appreciated!

 

[DSM1G90]

Yep, sounds like he got some good money out of you. (no such thing as 'clutch fluid' .. we use DOT 3 brake fluid when doing hydraulic clutches) .. and wanted you to come back.

Doesn't take much when one doesn't tighten up the lines to the cylinders to get air in them, which will kill any clutch action.

When you try to dump the clutch pedal, any back pressure felt, or just a dead shot to the floor when you pushed on the pedal? This will tell us if you lost pressure in the line, or the clutch has actually died with a busted TOB fork or similar..

Another thing is that, if you are not nice to the clutch, and on a freak day, the friction disc decided it was time to go since you think it's pretty well worn anyway and you when you downshifted, it grabbed some material off the disc to use quickly and no more clutch action was in store.

Let's talk about the tranny: How's the fluid level in it if you had hard shifting problems .....


Good luck - DSM

 

[LL GST]

Ok, so I got ripped off for the timing belt and the cylinders? What about 450 for labor on the clutch and flywheel? And there's still pressure in be pedal it didn't change at all, the clutch just doesn't grab. My transmission is good (atleast I think) shifts are pretty smooth and no grinding or anything like that.

I've never had problems shifting except for when my hydraulics were bad, it felt like the clutch wasn't fully disengaging. Also, I changed the tranny fluid recently with pennsoil synchromesh.
For the day I've had it back since taking it in, the shifting was just fine until my clutch hit the fan.

 

[jared_gibbs]

$600 for labor alone? No way. If that included the parts too that sounds about right. $450 for labor alone doesn't sound like he's doing you a favor. I'd upgrade the clutch now if I were you, it's not that much more for one of the ACT's or something like that.

 

[DSM1G90]

Pennz Syncro is too thin for our trannies - not the greatest stuff. Lot of us use Redline MT-90 which holds up tons better.

Bet you either lost a clutch fork, smoked up a friction disc, or the springs on the pressure plate took a nose dive if you still have clutch pedal pressure.

Have a helper on this test: with the helper behind the wheel pressing in on the clutch pedal, you be under looking at the slave ram which is pushing on the clutch fork. Helper pressed on the pedal, the ram should move forward pushing in on the clutch fork arm.

If the fork arm moves, then there is something internal that needs to be looked at, which curtails a removal of the tranny.

 

[SrKegler]

I can't think of any way he could set your slave and master up to work for just a day and then have the clutch fail. Just bad timing that your clutch failed the day later. 80K is about right for clutch life with spirited driving. One possibility is that the MC rod is extended out too far causing clutch pump up. If the fluid can't bleed back into the MC, the slave can't retract and it will have the same symptom as having your foot on the clutch pedal. Get underneath and try and push the clutch arm back in by hand. If you can't, crack the bleeder and try again. If that let's the slave retract adjust the rod.

If you can push it in, the clutch is shot. $450 for labor is a decent price for an Awd clutch job. Most shops want around $1200 if they provide the parts.

 

[Yomero]

Sorry to hear that your clutch is gone but I honestly think that is not the mechanic's fault. Most likely was about time to replace to clutch and flywheel and since you have just worked in your hydraulic system it had more pressure than usual and something jus gave up. But if you don't feel confident with your actual mechanic find someone else and take your car over there or just do the work yourself ( only way to know for sure what's going on with your car and save money at the same time)

 

[LL GST]

DSM1G90- thank you I didn't know that ill pick up some redline (or possibly GM synchromesh?) when I buy the parts for the clutch, also, the mechanic took his time to drive out to wear my car was stuck and we did that test, it was moving so something's wrong with the clutch. If I was to buy a clutch kit would that have all the parts that could potentially be shot? Thanks.
SrKegler- thanks I was wondering if there was any way he could tamper with the clutch without taking the tranny out, I don't think he would do that, but if there was any way that that would be possible it would be worth me taking a look into. Also, Ill look into that MC rod. It would be for a fwd by the way, would labor be significantly cheaper for fwd then awd?
Yomero- don't be sorry man, it is what it is. Like I said I don't think he would do that but it was worth checking to see if there was a way he could even mess that up and I would do it myself but I need my car in commission as soon as possible and I've never done a clutch job before so it would take me a long time, I don't have the tools, and it's finals these next couple weeks so I don't really have the time. Thanks for your input

 

[PieEyedPiper]

Mechanic: It's likely that your old disc bit the bullet because the clutch was not properly adjusted after the new cylinders were installed. 2g pedal pump up happens when the master rod is over-adjusted, it often feels great, but you can end up covering up an internal relief hole inside the master causes pressure to build up and up and eventually cause something like your old disc to slip itself to death. I do not feel, based on the information available, that there is any "funny business".

Fluid: Do not use anything "BG" or "syncroshift". Use OEM Mitsu Dia Queen, Redline MTL for FWD or MT90 for AWD.

Cost: Sure you over paid, compared to what diy dsmers pay, but you can pretty easily do a parts and labour breakdown that comes right up to that $997. MY only beef would be that I'm betting the timing components are not OEM.

 

[LL GST]

Is it possible that the mechanic adjusted the clutch pedal so much that there was so little play from where the pedal sits to the engagement point, that the master cylinder relief valve was covered causing pressure in the system to build up and cause the symptoms I described above? Thanks again!

 

[ricktb]

well typically your supposed to redo a clutch every 60K miles, you said yourself your not to easy on it its probably time. And clutches start to slip a little maybe not even enough to notice, but then they slip more and more its progressive and its gets bad fast as the clutch plate glazes over. I suppose a poor clutch adjustment could have made the clutch plate drag and cause it to wear pre-maturely. If you have suspicion the mechanic isnt a pro, you can always try a different shop and get their diagnosis on the clutch adjustment. If you find it was caused my the previous mechanic you can TRY to get your money back but I'd probably just not go back there. Who knows maybe this is a trick to bring in more business for a struggling shop, I hate mechanics. Clutches are supposedly easy to do, maybe with the information on this site you can pull through it yourself, in fact there are many youtube videos of a step by step procedure.

 

[LL GST]

Thanks everyone for all the useful information i appreciate it, I talked him down to 400 labor and he said its cool if I hangout while he works on it and he'd walk me through the whole process so ill learn from it and will be able to confidently do it myself next time I need a clutch.

 

[Colt4G63 also]

Go see if you can push the slave cylinder back in by hand. If you can't, you have pedal pump up (caused by mis-adjustment), and your clutch may not even need to be replaced.

 

[DSM1G90]

True, thing about DSM clutches is that they're auto adusting. Goto Jacks Transmissions LLC and he has videos explaining the MC ram adjustment - where if its adusted out too far as mentioned, it will keep the pressure up causing premature clutch wear.

It's not that all hard of a trick to adjust that MC ram, but it has to be done right.

(I'm due for a REDLINE MT-90 fluid changeout pretty soon since I've got 35K on the first MT-90 fill...definitely quiets down the syncros and makes shifting real easy ...)

-DSM

 

[evobullit2017]

any other red line fluid good for the rear diff and tcase?

 

[nelliott500]

any other red line fluid good for the rear diff and tcase?

I believe the rear diff and transfer case are supposed to use Lightweight Shockproof from Redline.