Car wont start after black puff of smoke

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

If you didn't perform an actual boost leak test you have zero grounds to say you have no boost leaks. For one final time... Check timing marks, do a compression test, do a boost leak test. These are VERY SIMPLE things and they will tell you where your problem lies. It's great that you found the broken belt but replacing the timing belt and doing a bse isn't going to make your car run.

 

[rocker_topper]

did a compression test. Results arent suprising. Cylinder 1 - 190, 2 - 165, 3 - 165, 4 - 100 and cylinder 4 would leak down to 0 once we stopped cranking the car. So obivously I have some internal damage either to the head or a piston. Most likely bent valves. My next question is does anyone here have a used cylinder head with good valves for sale? And I did do an ACTUAL boost leak test BTW. Pumped it up to 25PSI with no leaks.

All this chatter back and forth about doing a compression test and when i finally do get the results of one posted nobody responds? Lol ok well whenever you guys read it just let me know what you think. Im thinking bent valves. but wouldnt it make sence that if cylinder 4 had bent valves shouldnt cylinder 1 have them as well since they reach tdc at the same time? Maybe im thinking wrong but, i think the exhaust valves are open on cylinder 4 when cylinder 1 is hitting its compression stroke correct? So if cylinder 4 has bent valves, to me it would make sence if cylinder 1 had them too.

 

[xxNocturnalxx]

Yes the valves should hit at the same time but maybe not. Either way 190 is very unlikely considering 178psi. is on the highest end of compression for a turbo 2g.

You can pop the valve cover and see if maybe something else gave way causing the valves to still seat enough for good compression numbers, either way I think you need a new head.

 

[rocker_topper]

Yes the valves should hit at the same time but maybe not. Either way 190 is very unlikely considering 178psi. is on the highest end of compression for a turbo 2g.

You can pop the valve cover and see if maybe something else gave way causing the valves to still seat enough for good compression numbers, either way I think you need a new head.

That is my next step tomorrow along with removing the head. Im assuming its a pita to get the head off this thing compared to the 420a? Im very familiar with the n/t platform and it is quite easy for me to work on, but the turbo platform is breaking new grounds for me.

 

[RvlutionMtrsprt]

So have you found that the timing marks are off? Seems to me that 100psi will still get the motor started. My galant fired up with 100 across the board when I first bought it... If your timing belt is still lined up then I'd be curious to know how the valves bent. That low cylinder could be a lifter problem. Id check those timing marks before doing anything.

 

[rocker_topper]

So have you found that the timing marks are off? Seems to me that 100psi will still get the motor started. My galant fired up with 100 across the board when I first bought it... If your timing belt is still lined up then I'd be curious to know how the valves bent. That low cylinder could be a lifter problem. Id check those timing marks before doing anything.

Thats what i racked my brain on all night and i could only come up with, they cant be bent. And 100 did seem sufficient for starting her up i would have thought. Hell the 420a runs a lot higher compression and i got that bi*** to fire up with 65 across the board. Although it ran like crap though. Ill double check timing marks once more today after i get back from town. ###### gonna do a head gasket on it anyways. So anyone got a suggestion for a GREAT head gasket.

 

[Gasolinebaptism]

http://www.thedsmgraveyard.com/product_p/pf fel9627pt.htm
There's a good head gasket.
your 100 compression does not sound like bent valves at all, there are multiple issues that would cause that, but it's showing that the valves are sealing pretty well.
I'd pull the head, check the cylinders for any debris, pull the cams, bleed all the lifters, try turning the cams by hand (with only one cam in at a time) see if the valves open and close at the same rate. You may need a valve job, but I doubt you'll need valves replaced.

 

[rocker_topper]

DSM Graveyard - Your #1 Source for DSM Parts!
There's a good head gasket.
your 100 compression does not sound like bent valves at all, there are multiple issues that would cause that, but it's showing that the valves are sealing pretty well.
I'd pull the head, check the cylinders for any debris, pull the cams, bleed all the lifters, try turning the cams by hand (with only one cam in at a time) see if the valves open and close at the same rate. You may need a valve job, but I doubt you'll need valves replaced.

You know i didnt even think of a bad lifter but your right. Might be an issue . Im otw home now. When i get home ill pull the head after i quadruple check the timing marks. Whats an estimate for a valve job and pressure check and deck? Last time i had head work done was,just a check and deck and cost me $65. Also is it better to use the graphite style gaskets or mls? and arp head studs for all factory or just head bolts? Dont plan on doing any performance mods anytime soon as i have a 2.4 im building on atm and plan on getting it complete before dropping it in the car. Just need to get her back on the road cause shes my daily. Gave the 420a to the wife for her daily. (ugh she wouldnt let me get her anything else. Thank god shes a dsmer though .....)

 

[Gasolinebaptism]

I would use a composite gasket, and OEM studs are perfectly fine.
Also, before you let them deck your head have it checked for flatness, check with a vendor on this site for a flatness tolerance for that particular gasket. If you're within tolerance (likely) there is no reason to pay for a deck. You never want to deck a head more than a few times, so only do it when necessary.
A pressure check and valve job, typically including new valve seats and seals will run around 200. More than 250 and those prices are high.

 

[rocker_topper]

here is my timing marks. Yes i know i know its filthy. I'm working on cleaning her up right now. They look right to me though. What do you guys think?

 

[Gasolinebaptism]

I can't see your crank timing mark in the picture, but if it's on the arrow, then it's not an issue, and your timing is good.
Now you'll need to check for spark and fuel, do you need assistance in how to do those two things?

 

[rocker_topper]

I can't see your crank timing mark in the picture, but if it's on the arrow, then it's not an issue, and your timing is good.
Now you'll need to check for spark and fuel, do you need assistance in how to do those two things?

im pretty sure i can handle checking it but just for S**** and Giggles, run it by me again. spark is just pull the plug wire with a plug on it and crank it while watching the gap on the plug for spark, fuel is what i might need refreshing on. also whatsa good way for me to clean the engine of all the grime without scrub scrub scrubbing everyting down. something that isnt going to damage anything and that i can just spray on there, leave a while and rinse off. one more thing that caugt my eye is the metal plate behind the crankshaft timing gear was slightly bent by the balance shaft belt breaking. If im not mistaen isnt this what the crank sensor reads off of? if so will it being bent away from the crank sensor cause a no spark issue? makes sense to me but im a 4G63 newbie so thought id ask the experts.

 

[Gasolinebaptism]

I'm not 100% sure what triggers the Crank Angle sensor down there, and that plate could be it, but it wouldn't be my initial guess.
So try checking the fuel and spark and see where you end up.
Check spark with this procedure, grab an extra spark plug, pull off one of the spark plug wires at a time, and see if it will cause your plug to spark. Definitely ground the plug.
Now, to check your fuel pump, you can pull off the big line at the end of the fuel rail (drivers side) and see if fuel pumps out of the end of the rail. If it does then you'll need to check the injectors and make sure that they fire. You can pull the entire rail with the injectors still in it, and crank over the car, have a few hands making sure the injectors don't pop out and make a mess though. If your injectors fire, and your spark plugs fire, and your timing is on, then your car will start. lets see where the issue is.

And for the majority of that grime, just pick up a few cans of engine degreaser. It sprays on in a foam, leave it on for a bit then wipe or rinse off. works great.

 

[rocker_topper]

I'm not 100% sure what triggers the Crank Angle sensor down there, and that plate could be it, but it wouldn't be my initial guess.
So try checking the fuel and spark and see where you end up.
Check spark with this procedure, grab an extra spark plug, pull off one of the spark plug wires at a time, and see if it will cause your plug to spark. Definitely ground the plug.
Now, to check your fuel pump, you can pull off the big line at the end of the fuel rail (drivers side) and see if fuel pumps out of the end of the rail. If it does then you'll need to check the injectors and make sure that they fire. You can pull the entire rail with the injectors still in it, and crank over the car, have a few hands making sure the injectors don't pop out and make a mess though. If your injectors fire, and your spark plugs fire, and your timing is on, then your car will start. lets see where the issue is.

And for the majority of that grime, just pick up a few cans of engine degreaser. It sprays on in a foam, leave it on for a bit then wipe or rinse off. works great.

Will spraying the degreaser off with water harm anything? Also which degreaser are you familiar with using? never tried any canned degreaser, only puple power and greased lightnening. which both work good but arent the foaming kind.

 

[Gasolinebaptism]

Things like Foamy Engine Brite, or 3M Foaming Engine Degreaser.
Warm water it fine. just be careful of all your sensors.

 

[rocker_topper]

Things like Foamy Engine Brite, or 3M Foaming Engine Degreaser.
Warm water it fine. just be careful of all your sensors.

Ok ill pick some up. Any word on what the crank sensor triggers off of yet? The only thing i can think of is the metal plate behind the crank timing gear, but im not sure.

 

[Gasolinebaptism]

It is not trigger off the backing plate for the crankshaft gear.
It sits in the block.

 

[rocker_topper]

Pulled the head today and all looks good. Bevore i pulled the head i checked for fuel and spark. Got fuel, no spark. Pulled the head anyways and like stated all looked great. I wanna be certain its not a problem with rings now so how can i go about checking the rings? When i pulled the head off i noticed my camshaft posistion sensor didnt look to good. Well when i took it off it fell to pieces. My guess is thats the reason for the no spark. But that still doesnt explain the leaky compression on cylinder 4.

 

[Lou98GSX]

your going way head of yourself . you should find out why you have no spark and get the engine running.if the balance shaft belt broke it could of taken out the crank sensor . i had that happen on my sons car but he had a no crank signal code .

 

[rocker_topper]

your going way head of yourself . you should find out why you have no spark and get the engine running.if the balance shaft belt broke it could of taken out the crank sensor . i had that happen on my sons car but he had a no crank signal code .

I did find the reason for no spark. The camshaft position sensor was cracked in half. Replaced it and got spark. Pulled the head to inspect why cylinder 4 wont hold any compression. Short of blown head gasket and bent valves, of which i had neither, the only thing i could think of causing compression loss eould be bad rings. The head is going to the machine shop tomorrow and will find out about that in about a week (super backed up apparently). My question is, is there a way to check the rings with it in its current condition.

 

[Sebba]

You could do it old school. A 70 year old mechanic told me this one.

Take the pan off and stick a catch pan under the motor. Then turn the motor over till all the pistons are at the same height. Grab a can of mineral spirits and a measuring jug, measure out a fair amount, pour it in a cylinder and time how long it takes to run through. When done coat all the cylinders with fresh oil and soak up any excess spirits.

If you have a ring problem it'll be obvious.

 

[rocker_topper]

You could do it old school. A 70 year old mechanic told me this one.

Take the pan off and stick a catch pan under the motor. Then turn the motor over till all the pistons are at the same height. Grab a can of mineral spirits and a measuring jug, measure out a fair amount, pour it in a cylinder and time how long it takes to run through. When done coat all the cylinders with fresh oil and soak up any excess spirits.

If you have a ring problem it'll be obvious.

Can the same results be obtained by using regular thin weight oil, like 5w30?

 

[Diamond Star Werks]

basically it can. the thing your trying to accomplish is seeing how, fast it runs through. if one goes through a,good bit faster than the others then its,a bad,ring. though one bad cylinder will not keep the car from running. It can run on two or,at least mine has,b4.