Car won't start (420a)

[diab0liK]

03/05/06:
Problem has reoccurred.....see further down thread for details



Original Post:

So....

caught a flat on a bad rim in my 95 gs week and a half or so ago...I was really close to home, so I put air in the tire and drove home, and I forgot to get gas @ the gas station, car almost runs out of gas on the way home. Tracked down new wheels and tires, get them on this morning.

I start it up today, thinking I'm going to have enough gas to limp to the gas station (2-3 miles away) and get gas. I was just letthing the car warm up for a quick minute, and it started fine. Then I hear it start to sputter after 45-90 seconds, and drops rpms, then starts to run almost normal again, then drops low almost stalling, back and forth a few times. I hop in and turn it off quickly.

Jumped in my roommates truck, ran down the to gas station, got a gallon of gas, came home, and put it in the tank. Then I went to start the car....it started fine, but quickly stalled. I tried to start it again, and I couldn't even get it over maybe 4-500 rpms momentarily before it would stall again. Each time I tried to turn it over, less and less success, and eventually, wouldn't even turn over.


I went inside for about 30 mins or so, went back out, tried to start it again. Started right up, but quickly died. Same issue with the more I try, the less success I have. Rinsed and repeated....same result.


What do you guys think? I pulled some water in? I'm in a cold climate, and it's been really cold and snowing a bit as of late. Also maybe I need another gallon or two of gas, because it's not getting to the fuel line? I would think maybe it was the fuel pump, but it ran fine for near 2 minutes, and then only sputtered, while staying running...


Anyone have suggestions? The oil was changed recently (1500 miles ao), and past this, when it is running, no strange noises or discolered smoke or anything. I thought maybe I pinched the exhaust when I was puttin on the new wheels, but it ran too long the first time for that to be the case. Also why is it starting fine after I let it sit? It's not like it was ever warm in the first place, so it's certainly still cold.....I tried pumping the gas pedal a bit when it starts to rev up a bit, but to no avail...it's doing nothing apparent to me.


Bleh...I don't want to drive anything else in this crappy weather, so any ideas appreciated.

 

[diab0liK]

oh, and the fuel filter was replaced with the oil.....that was definitely the worst thing ever. Thank god it's not so awful on most years.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Try holding the gas down when you start the car, then let off after it starts and idles better. It almost sounds like you're not getting enough fuel, has the car been sitting for an extended period of time before all this happened?

 

[diab0liK]

Try holding the gas down when you start the car, then let off after it starts and idles better. It almost sounds like you're not getting enough fuel, has the car been sitting for an extended period of time before all this happened?

yeah...i tried that a couple times now, but I'm not sure if I was actually holding it down WHEN i started the car...guess I'll go try it now.

I think I'm going to try and rock it a little bit to slosh the gas towards the inlet.

 

[diab0liK]

meh....same result...lot of sputtering, and no start whatsoever. I'm leaning more towards it's not getting any gas again....

I guess I'll probably go into town with the bigger gas can in a few hours (need a nap badly) and do that....I just HATE putting gas in a broken car. Every time I've ever had a major problem with my car it's been on a full tank of gas....just some kind of horrible pet peeve.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I had the same problem as you when I let my car sit for a few months. It had all the same symptoms, but I kept turning it over and it finally started. It was caused by clogged injectors I'm assuming. You don't need much gas in the tank to start the car; plus you probably have more gas in the there than you think (the fuel level gauge, as you probably know, is horribly inaccurate).

 

[diab0liK]

I had the same problem as you when I let my car sit for a few months. It had all the same symptoms, but I kept turning it over and it finally started. It was caused by clogged injectors I'm assuming. You don't need much gas in the tank to start the car; plus you probably have more gas in the there than you think (the fuel level gauge, as you probably know, is horribly inaccurate).

Well....this was only sitting for like 10-14 days...somewhere along those lines. I've tried 4 seperate times, and probably stopped and re-turned the key 4-5 times each of those times I've gone outside....

the reason I know it's terribly low on gas is b/c as I said....it almost ran out of gas when I was driving home on the quickly flattening tire.

 

[VelocitàPaola]

Well... I know gas is expensive, but it's worth a try. It shouldn't take more than two gallons - if that.

 

[toffa]

I had a similar problem to this (well similar symtoms), but it turned out to be a really bad spark plug...the car wouldn't start...realised I ran out of gas...got some gas car still wouldn't start...checked the plugs 3 were bad and one was done. I installed new plugs and the problem went away

 

[Siral3x]

sup Michigan??
OK...here are some solutions that worked on many cars ...not only DSMs basic stuff!
AS u said the car worked fine, you just ran out of gas right??
Well to make it simple put it like this:
1. It's not an orthodox method but it always worked for me on all cars that I owned...
Get a empty window washing spray kinda thing...and put some Shell V-Power in it, disconect the Intake pipe going to the TB, get in the car +have the car at WOT and have your friend spray some in your TB(opened at WOT) while you cranck it up.
Your car should start up in 4-6 sec or so...and when it does listen carefully the engine ...if it sounds that it's running fine( like reving up ok) then u're 'saved' with a simple fix.
Just fill it UP with some High Octane gas..and cranck it for a while....it will start!, or better of if you got some spare time just drain the old gas !that way u get rid of the water and any other debris in your tank THAT caused your problem!!)
REMEMBER you live in MI...condensation in the gas tank occurs all the time=> water in the system....that's why you want to keep your gas tank full most of the time.
PS:After you try this, and the car won't start then you gotta chk your ignition/fuel injectors/spark , but hey you said that the car was running fine last time you drove it so we'll keep or fingers crossed!
Anyway let me know the result please.
GOOD LUCK!

 

[diab0liK]

yeah....

sorry I forgot to check back yesterday, but I got a lift down to the gas station, got another gallon, and with almost no problems it fired up. I suspect there was just significant condensation from the weather, coupled with little/no gas, so I was probably trying to burn a lot of water.

Now to rebuild the slave cyl and throw in my new clutch.

 

[Siral3x]

Good to hear! DOn't forget to edit the post and add it as Solved!

 

[diab0liK]

well.....I thought the problems were wrapped up....apparently not though.

Yesterday I drove across town to go get a bite with a friend of mine. Car started fine in the morning, drove fine all the way over there. After that, I was driving another 15-20 mins over to another friends place, and on the eway at about 80 or so, CEL popped up. There was no apparent problem with the way it was running, and when I put the car in neutal it was still idling around 1k rpms, so I wasn't too worried.

I accidentally drove past the street I needed to turn on, so I pulled a u-turn on a side street, and halfway through, the car stalled. I tried several times to restart it, but had the same symptoms I was having before....

Motor is turning over, and starting to fire, but then it never gets over 400ish rpms. If I just try to start it, it will go up to 400 once and then stall again. If I hold WOT, and then start it, it will go up to 400, then almost stall, and back up to 400 a few times..maybe 3-5 times of getting up to 400 rpms, before it ultimately stalls. Pumping the throttle seems to have no affect.

So I had to push it by myself over into a nearby parking lot (unfortunately a bank!), where it still sits. I'm planning on going back today, and if I can't get it running, I'm going to have to take advantage of my AAA membership and get it towed home, before it gets towed to an impound lot.

I went back a couple hours later, gave it a bottle of iso heet, and a couple more gallons of gas, thinking it was just condensation in the tank. Same result, nothing over 400 or so rpms.

Thoughts? I'm thinking it's likely severely clogged injectors, or the fuel pump, but I don't know why the problem comes flying out of left field after the car was running fine. It's just strange to me that the symptoms are identical to what they were when I had virtually no gas, but now I have close to a half a tank in there, and some iso heet.

 

[Siral3x]

Like I said to the same test again:
Get a empty window washing spray kinda thing...and put some Shell V-Power in it, disconect the Intake pipe going to the TB, get in the car +have the car at WOT and have your friend spray some in your TB(opened at WOT) while you cranck it up.
Your car should start up in 4-6 sec or so...and when it does listen carefully the engine ...if it sounds that it's running fine( like reving up ok) then we talk more abt it.

 

[diab0liK]

Like I said to the same test again:
Get a empty window washing spray kinda thing...and put some Shell V-Power in it, disconect the Intake pipe going to the TB, get in the car +have the car at WOT and have your friend spray some in your TB(opened at WOT) while you cranck it up.
Your car should start up in 4-6 sec or so...and when it does listen carefully the engine ...if it sounds that it's running fine( like reving up ok) then we talk more abt it.

Well I might try that.....what is it supposed to accomplish though?

oh and what intake piping exactly are you talking about?

 

[diab0liK]

The more I think about it, I think it's either some kind of obstruction in the fuel line, or bad fuel pump....

Trying to figure out a way to get over there so I can get it towed home today....it's parked @ a fking bank.....it's sunday so I don't think they'll tow it today, but I"m sure they will tomorrow.

 

[bizzare6996]

it can be 1 of 5 things ive had the same thing happend to me. check these parts:
1)throttle position sensor
2)map sensor its on the end of the intake manifold
3)coil pack and or plug wires bad/unproperly gapped plugs
4)crankshaft sensor
5)cam angle sensor

more than likely it'll be your map and cam angle sensor those where the 2 i replaced first and it fixed the problem.

 

[diab0liK]

it can be 1 of 5 things ive had the same thing happend to me. check these parts:
1)throttle position sensor
2)map sensor its on the end of the intake manifold
3)coil pack and or plug wires bad/unproperly gapped plugs
4)crankshaft sensor
5)cam angle sensor

more than likely it'll be your map and cam angle sensor those where the 2 i replaced first and it fixed the problem.

wrong on all counts.

I got a chance to go back to the car before I got it towed....

timing belt jumped.

FACK.

I've gotta go see if there's any damage tomorrow..it was really dark.

props to AAA though....they sent a flatbed over, which is nice, because I was worried about clearance.

 

[diab0liK]

is there anything I should know or be looking for as far as tb problems w/ a 420a? I got this piece as a winter beater, thought I might turbo it for shits and giggles, and I got a tremendous deal on it, and was planning to work on it. Then I ran into a bunch of money issues, so now it's just become a straight beater, and I've had nothing with problems.

Anyway the point is I'm realy not familiar w/ the 420a that much....I'm a 4g63 guy.

Anything I should be looking for damage-wise, and anything different about doing the timing belt as compared to a 4g63? If anyone has a 420a tb replacement tutorial/walktrhough that would be classy.