cam upgrade on a stock turbo to a 16g?

[xxsupralvrxx]

Yesterday i was talkin to my dad about doin the timing belt, and he brought up porting the head and maybe a new set of cams.... what do you guys think? I also wanna get rid of the balance shafts.

 

[erald01]

Different strokes for different folks,

there's a guy on here with no tuning device (besides a logger)... IIRC, what he does have is cams, porting, built bottom end, running e85, 650cc injectors and a re-wired 255hp (and I'm pretty sure no AFPR)... although it seems almost impossible with 650's, he produced around 500hp on the dyno.. almost all of these things are required to make numbers even close to this, and still no tuning device

You can do what you want to with enough formulation

Well a logger is a tunning device and the logger can only tune up to 650's. 500hp with 650's is possible as long as the supporting mods are there.

 

[92awddsm]

Well a logger is a tunning device and the logger can only tune up to 650's. 500hp with 650's is possible as long as the supporting mods are there.

A logger, aka datalogger, is only a monitoring device. It has no control over anything more than the diagnostic port. A tuning device would be dsmlink , afc, etc. Some tuning devices have a built in logger but a logger only logs events that happen with the engine.

To th op, cams will make a good difference with either a 14b or 16g with the proper tune. This is going to require a minimum of a fp rewire, afc, and some sort of dattalogger. The head porting will give minuscule results at this level.

 

[JDR7919]

Just so you know not all dsm's came with an eprom ecu so you will need to check to see if you have one.

 

[Freerevving]

Well a logger is a tunning device and the logger can only tune up to 650's. 500hp with 650's is possible as long as the supporting mods are there.

A logger can not tune injectors or make any other changes to your settings... You use it for tuning by making changes and checking the logger to see how your engine reacts

The point to what I was saying, is that the guy obviously calculated fuel pressure, fuel flow (650's), and the 130% fuel demand of e85... and I'm sure there was a bit of experimention

A logger, aka datalogger, is only a monitoring device. It has no control over anything more than the diagnostic port. A tuning device would be dsmlink , afc, etc. Some tuning devices have a built in logger but a logger only logs events that happen with the engine.

To th op, cams will make a good difference with either a 14b or 16g with the proper tune. This is going to require a minimum of a fp rewire, afc, and some sort of dattalogger. The head porting will give minuscule results at this level.

thanks for keeping the information straight

I don't know... my talon ran just fine with a 190 and some 272's... lumpy and rich at idle... but just fine... Oh wait, there was an obvious loss in horsepower (maybe 20hp?) when the weather got over 95 degrees and the engine was at full temp... nothing dangerous, though, just a rich condition
I'll admit it wasn't near it's full potential in the upper rpm's, but it ran a hell of a lot faster than stock

 

[90laserRSfwd]

I think you we're asking more about the cam upgrade then the porting work but I figured I'd just chime in on this one. BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN YOU PORT A 1G HEAD. It only takes seconds to completely ruin the floor shape and kill velocity. Not sure who mentioned that the exhaust side needs the most work, but anyone that ports 1g heads can tell you that the exhaust is where the work is needed. Not that I know anything about porting heads, because my car is all stock Onto the cam comments. A nice set (HKS, BC's, etc.) of 264/264 or 264/272 cams (degree'd) will make your car come alive up top.

 

[caliboy23]

I agree with most of what's said in this thread so far. When your porting as your dad probably knows from his experience, just match the ports to the gasket and touch up the imperfections on the intake side. On the exhaust side do the same but also polish the ports. Also in the combustion chamber be VERY carefull. You don't wanna screw up the valve seats. Just a very little bit of work is needed around the outer area's of the valves. But only a LITTLE bit. If you do too much you'll ruin your compression. Let the pro's with the flow benches get crazy in the combustion chambers. And last but not least, polish the combustion chambers when your done with the touch up work. Detenation sucks and hot spots in the combustion chambers are a contributing factor to detenation. If you polish those chambers it reduces the chances of hot spots collecting in the course imperfections of the casting.

Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

 

[xxsupralvrxx]

wow I didnt relize how many people chimed in, thanks . So for 264/264 cams i will need tuning a biiger fuel pump and bigger injectors on the stock turbo? Now I am sure this haas been asked many a time but with my goal will 2.5" or a full 3" turbo back exhaust be good? Also what are these palm loggers? An where do I get one?

 

[90laserRSfwd]

wow I didnt relize how many people chimed in, thanks . So for 264/264 cams i will need tuning a biiger fuel pump and bigger injectors on the stock turbo? Now I am sure this haas been asked many a time but with my goal will 2.5" or a full 3" turbo back exhaust be good? Also what are these palm loggers? An where do I get one?

You don't NEED a bigger pump, injectors, etc. but it doesn't hurt. I'd recommend at least rewiring your fuel pump regardless. The less restrictive the exhaust on a turbo car the better. I'd go with full 3" with a tubular o2 housing. You'll have a little higher initial investment but the end result will be worth it. A palm logger is nothing more then a "palm piolet" with the MMCD software. You use it to capture things like RPM, KNOCK, ETC. and use that information to tune your car. As much as I like to promote HKS's products, I'd recommend a set of FP 1's or the DKS step 1 (264/272 combo) cams...

Let me know if you need links for the cams or logging software. Jayson.

 

[Freerevving]

I think you we're asking more about the cam upgrade then the porting work but I figured I'd just chime in on this one. BE VERY CAREFUL WHEN YOU PORT A 1G HEAD. It only takes seconds to completely ruin the floor shape and kill velocity.

Man, you are so right and I'm glad you mentioned this... I have seen top quality "professional" hand ports, CNC ports, where the port was made flat at the bottom... The floor shape was ruined.

Take a look at my last port job... I kept the double "teardrop" shape and exaggerated it.... something I see a lot of other machinists miss or screw up... btw the guides were replaced with bronze

These are older pictures of the headwork in progress, I can take more if you want

 

[jrohner]

I have the BC 272 cams and would highly recommend them. Great power and torque, awesome sounding idle, and no loss of spoolup. I have my mods and dyno chart in my profile, so check them out there. My car actually pulls pretty good even up to 8 grand now (no I'm not revving it that high when racing, just testing), especially when I have the boost down to around 20.

I'm quite happy with 370.9awhp at 22-23 psi (on a dyno dynamics dyno which is said to read much lower than a dynojet). This was just a dyno shootout, I've never done any dyno tuning. I was trying before the dyno to get boost turned up more, but even with 31psi at 3500 rpms, it would drop to 24 or so with some rpms.