cam upgrade on a stock turbo to a 16g?

[xxsupralvrxx]

Yesterday i was talkin to my dad about doin the timing belt, and he brought up porting the head and maybe a new set of cams.... what do you guys think? I also wanna get rid of the balance shafts.

 

[4G63_Attack]

Working on the camshaft is a walk in the park compare to working on the balance shaft removal. Might as will do a whole engine rebuild, having the engine out of the car is a lot easier to work on the b/s (balance shaft)

 

[xxsupralvrxx]

really? If you all didnt understand what i ment its that I am wonderin if I'll make any more power on a stock turbo or when I decide to upgrade to say a 16g size maybe a lil bigger with a set of cams

 

[TxR6guy]

You can make good power on the 16g, depends on how far you want to go? You dont need to port these heads on these cars really. If it was me i would just throw a 16g,Fuel Pump 255,Inj,FPR and 272 cams,Wideband,exhaust and SAFC or Dsmlink and have fun with the car if your looking for a daily driver car.

 

[xxsupralvrxx]

yea its a daily driver. I wanna work my way up threw differnt setups I would like to see an easy 350+ whp by the same time next year...on pump gas! I am gonna start reserch soon on the exact size turbo I want. But also what size injectors would suffice? 550's? Thanks everyone for your imput

 

[JDR7919]

550cc injectors will work but I would go a little bigger. If you go with dsmlink you should get 850cc or larger because dsmlink can handle large injector without a problem and you wont have to upgrade again in the future.

 

[nctalon]

If you end up going with a dsmlink then get as big as injectors as you can like 850cc or 1000cc. that way you have lots of room if you decide to step up to a bigger turbo.

 

[nctalon]

jdr beat me to it.

 

[fatherbubble]

You can make good power on the 16g, depends on how far you want to go? You dont need to port these heads on these cars really. If it was me i would just throw a 16g,Fuel Pump 255,Inj,FPR and 272 cams,Wideband,exhaust and SAFC or Dsmlink and have fun with the car if your looking for a daily driver car.

Thats the route I just went. Tho I took it a step further. I added water/ Methanol, big front mount, and fixing to get a nitrous kit.

 

[Freerevving]

on my talon I had a huge increase in power with a stronger fuel pump, HKS 272's and a stock 14b at 13psi

 

[EvolvingGST]

On a side note, becareful with porting a head because you really should get it flow tested while porting. But yeah what everyone else said

 

[xxsupralvrxx]

free thats just what i wanted to know and hear! and on the injector note I guess I'll save up for DSM link first

 

[Detective Coating]

If you end up going with a dsmlink then get as big as injectors as you can like 850cc or 1000cc. that way you have lots of room if you decide to step up to a bigger turbo.

Get 1050's because they actually flow 1050cc unlike the 1000cc that actually flow less. You can get them from FIC. Don't forget they are going to be a little harder to dial in then say 650's or so.

 

[Freerevving]

On a side note, becareful with porting a head because you really should get it flow tested while porting. But yeah what everyone else said

While I agree with this... I also disagree

I've heard so many people talk about flowbenching heads... but I've measured (dimensionally) stock heads... the differences are enormous! This means a stock head should have considerable flow differences between cylinders. As long as you don't exaggerate the differences, you'll be fine.

I have also seen cars with un-flowbenched, hand-ported engines running very low quarter-mile times and they have never been known to have problems. If one wants to get picky on a budget, it should be with the materials and competence used in rebuilding the engine, but not with perfectly safe and minute differences that only lead up to very small gains. For example, balancing an inline crank is good if the sky is the limit, but it's at the bottom of my list on a budget.... I'd rather shot-peen the rods and have them cryo-treated...

IMO flow benching a mildy ported head is another example of this. If you want to do a heavy port, you can just take before and after measurements. Even though taking measurements between machining can take a long time, and you can end up with a heavy port instead of a mild, it sure beats FINDING someone with a flowbench, having them set it up for your head, paying them too much money, machining some more, paying them more money, and gaining nothing in comparison.

It would be less time consuming and less expensive to build your own flow bench... or just buy some calipers and get to measuring

 

[xxsupralvrxx]

my dads been hand porting heads for years! Never ever used a flow bench just made sure each an every port looked like the others besides we were only thinkin bout doin the exhaust

 

[xxsupralvrxx]

since this is a turbo motor so its not the intake that needs to get in quickly (well out on the exhaust) because the intake in under pressure. ect..ect..ect...

 

[allwheeldrizive]

since this is a turbo motor so its not the intake that needs to get in quickly (well out on the exhaust) because the intake in under pressure. ect..ect..ect...

That made absolutley no sense....

 

[JDR7919]

Dont forget if you go with dsmlink you are going to need a eprom ecu.

 

[Freerevving]

That made absolutley no sense....

yeah you're right

after closely examining the patient, I believe he meant that porting the exhaust is more important... because the intake is under pressure and the exhaust is trying to relieve pressure

Sorry about being condecending j/k

Don't forget it's far more important to port the exhaust on a 1g head, because of the extremely large differences in port size... what goes in must come out

 

[xxsupralvrxx]

again thank you free ! I have trouble somtimes typing what I wanna say but you hit the nail on the head thanks. Ok iam new to these cars an their computers but what is a eprom? When I had my Cobalt it was a simple reflash of the computer (with HPtuners)

 

[Freerevving]

It refers to the micro-controller (microchip) inside the ECU.... Erasable Programmable Read-Only Memory: EPROM

in reality, EPROM was a chip with a sticker on it. When the sticker was lifted, the incoming UV light would erase the stored memory.

EEPROM is the same thing, but it takes an electronic charge to erase the memory. As far as I know, both your Cobalt and DSM's actually have EEPROM (Electronically Erasable Programmable Read-Only Memory), because flash usually refers to that.


Oh and by the way PORTING:

On the exhaust ports, gasket, and manifold, you will notice that certain ports are larger than others. I'm 99% sure Mitsubishi did this on purpose... The shorter the length to the turbo, the larger the port. This ensures that the port volumes are the same/similar and that air velocity is the same.


My advice is (if you don't use an equal length runner/ tubular manifold) is to keep some of the differences between the ports, right at and around the hole... if you go bigger at a small port, you should go a little bigger at the already-big-ports. The differences should not be large when you're done

 

[xxsupralvrxx]

oooo Ok thats pretty cool.

 

[erald01]

In other words follow the right steps to make power, and don't worry too much about the cams when you don't even have the bigger injectors or the tuning device for the car. Stock cams will do fine and they will take you to high 11's, just make sure you have a goal set for the car and power.

 

[xxsupralvrxx]

well my goal is to have a nice sleeper that can run 12's on pump and maybe high 11's on race gas. Now I know its along time to come and a bit of money to gather but I am sure its possible.

 

[Freerevving]

Different strokes for different folks,

there's a guy on here with no tuning device (besides a logger)... IIRC, what he does have is cams, porting, built bottom end, running e85, 650cc injectors and a re-wired 255hp (and I'm pretty sure no AFPR)... although it seems almost impossible with 650's, he produced around 500hp on the dyno.. almost all of these things are required to make numbers even close to this, and still no tuning device

You can do what you want to with enough formulation