Cam gears always one tooth off?

[bcjjones]

So, my camshaft gears never line up correctly, they are one tooth off. I just put a rebuilt head on it and its still the same, one tooth off. Anyone have this problem? No matter how many times I turn it over the exhaust timing mark is off one tooth? The pin points straight up as it should on the intake cam but on the exhaust its a little off, which in turn puts the timing marks off a tooth. Like I said the same on the old head and rebuilt. I know they are stock cams also.

Also another basic question. When setting the crankshaft timing on the mark, after the belt iscover on, one full rotation from that will put the number one cylinder TDC on the exhaust stroke correct? And then another full turn should again put the number one cylinder at TDC back on the compression stroke? Or is that not how it works?

 

[mrvict0r]

Hey bud:

I see your an NT but are you a 4g63? If so it is slightly tricky but easy to do the timing. The gears pull away from each other (which helps actually.. wait till you try an evo) You are just not going far enough which is why they are a tooth off. When setting timing go in the following procedure:

1:Clamp belt on exhaust cam first with clips (like the big black paperclip things)
2: Be sure that cams are pins up, its usually two teeth from resting position when putting the belt around the intake cam, clamp the belt on the intake came.
3: feed belt down and around idler pulley (the pulley that does not adjust)
4: feed belt around oil pump/rear balance shaft (make sure its on timing mark and in phase)
5: feed belt around the crank
6: loosely feed belt around adjuster pulley

At this point, all timing marks should light up. If they don't, start over, you messed something up.

Now, do you still have balance shafts? if so, be sure they are in the proper phase. Proper phase for the rear shaft/oil pump is "by hand, turn the gear a couple teeth off the timing mark, if it falls back towards time, your in the right phase, if it falls away from time, your 180 degrees out of phase. Rotate the gear 360 degrees and test again" for the front, this one is not as easy. If you never removed the bal belt, your good, if you did you have to remove the inspection plug on the front of the block and check with a small screwdriver.. Or just cut the belt, ya don't need it.. Just let that shaft sit there.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

 

[Alan11]

.... Or just cut the belt, ya don't need it.. Just let that shaft sit there.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

Explain this please.


To The OP- http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-1G.html

 

[buhay6]

I agree with Alan11, how do you come to the conclusion you can leave the belt off? not running the balance shafts without a BSE kit could cause the engine to blow with major bottom end damage.

 

[mrvict0r]

Hey guys:

The front shaft can be left in the block and does not have to actually be removed. This does not cause damage. If you physically remove the shaft and do not use a kit, that is what will cause a drop in oil psi that can cause damage. Front balance shaft belt cutting is and has been a common thing for years. But you have to leave it, and the adjuster pulley in.

Either way, you are hijacking this guys thread. Start a new thread for new discussions.

Hope this helps!

*edited a typo*

 

[bcjjones]

Yea I don't wanna just leave a belt off, and I only removed the timing belt and the other two serpentine belts. So I don't have to deal with that. But what im saying is I can never get the pin in the exhaust cam to face straight up, it's always facing more towards the front if the car and up at an angle rather then straight up like the intake cam. If I try to slight rotate it, it either goes too far the other way or just rest back where it was. If that makes sense.

Also what are the adverse effects of having the oil pump sprocket out of phase? Just curious

 

[mrvict0r]

Hey bud:

No worries. Its your ride man I was not advising you to remove anything, just saying you could.

As for the tooth, your just not going far enough. Have you done this before? Check Vfaq, there is an ancient write up with all the info you should need if I did not give you enough.

Timing Belt VFAQ (Timing Belt TSB - ENHANCED)

That link should get you started.

As for the shaft being out of phase, it will add vibration rather than eliminating it.. I.E. make the engine shake when its running.

Hope this helps!

 

[buhay6]

Hey guys:

The front shaft can be left in the block and does not have to actually be removed. This does not cause damage. If you physically remove the shaft and do not use a kit, that is what will cause a drop in oil psi that can cause damage. Front balance shaft belt cutting is and has been a common thing for years. But you have to leave it, and the adjuster pulley in.

Either way, you are hijacking this guys thread. Start a new thread for new discussions.

Hope this helps!

*edited a typo*

OOOOH ok well I've been hearing two things so my apologies, so you can run with no balance shaft belt fine? ### I'll go out and cut mine then right the heck now.

 

[Alan11]

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/new...t-belt-merged-6-7-cutting-belts-remove-2.html

 

[mrvict0r]

Hey bud:

Another great trick for knowing if you got the cams in time is the small Flathead screwdriver trick.

Get it in what you think is time. With the pins up and the timing marks facing each other, insert a small Flathead screwdriver through the gears where the gear marks line up. If your in time, the Flathead will rest perfectly on the head between the valve cover and the head (like right where the gasket is) if its too high, go another tooth, if its too low, come back a tooth.

Hope that helps!

 

[buhay6]

If that doesn't work why not pull the cams off and re install them, who knows might work.

 

[bcjjones]

Alright so the only thing im still confused about is, should I need to apply pressure to the exhaust camshaft and clamp the belt on it for the timing marks to line up? And also for the dowel pin to be facing up? I mean the only way to get the exhaust mark to line up is to apply pressure clockwise to the sprocket and somehow maintain that pressure while installing the belt. I guess that's why I have to clip the belt in place?

Sorry to make this so confusing. I just don't see anywhere in the directions that I have to apply pressure to the exhaust cam. Because I don't have to for the intake cam, it sits good without needing pressure

 

[Alan11]

"try setting the exhaust sprocket one tooth off in the clockwise direction (mark below the head plane), clamp the belt to the sprockets, then rotate the sprockets a little so the intake mark is slightly above the head plane and the exhaust is slightly below, with the bottom 3 marks lined up. Then the marks should align when you tension the belt"

Straight off from the write up on vfaq.

read this ------>Timing Belt VFAQ (Timing Belt TSB - ENHANCED) <-------

 

[mrvict0r]

Hey bud:

Yes, if you read my original reply to you carefully, I mention that the cams will naturally pull away from each other, which is actually helpful as the cam gears themselves hold the belt where you want it (in the evo, they rotate towards each other and that's a pain in the ass heh)

So like I said. Put the belt on the exhaust gear and clamp it down, when you go to bring the belt over the intake gear you will have to rotate the exhaust cam towards the intake cam two teeth (actually, unless your a girly man, you can just pull the belt and the cam will rotate on its own). when you get it right, all the marks will line up and the belt will now be tightly stretched between both gears as they are trying to rotate away from each other. Align timing marks and check with a Flat Head screwdriver as I told you before.

Now, all that being said. These are simple basic and should have been intuitive procedures. I am not talking shit or making fun. But if you do not have a SOLID understanding of what your doing, what I'm explaining, you should really think twice about doing this yourself. I am not talking shit here, I just want you to understand the danger in doing these procedures wrong. Most people do their own timing belt to save money, but one wrong move and your head is toast.. You will have gone from saving $300 at a shop to causing $1500 in damage to your engine. Just be sure you have 100% confidence. A timing belt is not for the unsure to try tinkering with.

That being said, it is a straight forward thing. Read the VFAQ, understand what it is your doing, and you should be fine.. If you find yourself muddling through this, STOP and go to a shop, your valves wont stand a chance.

Best of luck!

Aaron

 

[bcjjones]

I have a pretty extensive mechanical background but everything I have owned has been a dodge or chevy product and these cars are completely different. Its just a big learning curve for me. I appreciate your patience and help. Also your concern.

The only reason I was confused is because the marks were one tooth off before with the old head and it ran good but had a couple valves that burnt. No interference between the valves and pistons though. After reading your last post I understand now. Thank you again.

I also have always turned the motor over a dozen times by hand when messing with timing. Just to be certain there is no interference. Thanks again tho yall

 

[DSM1G90]

..just let the teeth of the belt hold the two sprockets in place - then clamp them down with clothpins bulldog clips..string.. et.al.