Cam degreeing - aem gears/kelford cams

[kristoph]

Good Evening Friends,


I just got my head cylinder back from the machine shop. I had them assemble my head with kiggly HP valve springs, kelford 272 cams and aem adjustable gears.

This is my very first engine build and I just want to be extra cautious. Does this look right to you. the gears clearly are not properly aligned, but being adjustable I guess the point is to set them once the timing is set?

I guess my question is, does the installation of the cams and gears appear to be correct ? two intake valves are open is this normal ?

I am assuming my next step is to install the test springs, and solid lifters, adjust for zero lash and set timing ? I had them assemble the head, despite the fact I would be taking it apart again to install the test springs because I wanted to look and learn how the cams are to be installed.

please advice.


Kris

 

[too_genecide]

Your cams are off by 90 degrees. The degree markings should be on the top as well as the dowel pins on the cams.

 

[kristoph]

is there a way to determine if the cams are in fact out 90 degrees, by looking at the lobes and how they contract the rockers. could I not just loosen off the adjustable gears and set them correctly ?

 

[donniekak]

From the pictures it looks like it was on a belt sander.

Like any other head it'll need to be put in time upon assembly. Then the gears can be adjusted a few degrees to get them installed to spec.

I'd be more worried about the deck surface. It looks like there are still fire ring imprints in the deck, and that it may have been belt sanded.

 

[kristoph]

the cam gears where not on the camshafts when I dropped everything off and Im wondering if its just a matter of adjusting the gears....

 

[donniekak]

is there a way to determine if the cams are in fact out 90 degrees, by looking at the lobes and how they contract the rockers. could I not just loosen off the adjustable gears and set them correctly ?

The dowel pins should be up, and the cam gear marks facing each other. But it won't just sit like that.

Have you ever set timing on a 4g63 before? You'll follow the exact same procedure as non adjustable gears. Then you'll need a degree kit to set them perfectly.

 

[kristoph]

I have set timing before, but on stock cams and gears. I didnt install the adjustable stuff and I am worried the camshafts are not sitting in the head properly.

would you recommend removing the gears and reinstalling them with dowel pins up and proper alignment ?

 

[kristoph]

how can I confirm camshaft lobe position ?

 

[kristoph]

more pics attached

 

[donniekak]

Why would you take the gears off to turn the cams?

 

[kristoph]

I have zero experience with these adjustable gears and they are freaking me out, I guess the allen keys can simply be loosened and the gears adjusted to proper spec, with dowel pins up and timing lines matched up. my only concern is the lobe position of the cams

 

[donniekak]

Don't touch the Allen bolts. You'll set timing with them exactly like stock gears. You use a wrench on the 17mm bolt in the middle to turn them.

The Allen head bolts are only used after the belt is on, and timing is set. You then use a piston stop, degree wheel, solid lifter, and dial indicator to move them to match the cam specs. The cams have to be set just like stock with the lines facing each other before you do this.

 

[kristoph]

Ok so the cams are not installed on the rockers properly....jesus. thats the whole point of me bringing it to them to assemble...

 

[kristoph]

or the gears need to be removed and reinstalled in they're proper position via the gear to cam bolts...?

 

[donniekak]

How are the rockers installed improperly?

I'm not getting what you're saying about removing the gears to get them in the proper position. The timing is set with the gears set to zero. You act as if they aren't adjustable gears. You adjust them after the timing is set.

Just follow this. http://www.vfaq.com/mods/timingbelt-2G.html

 

[kristoph]

Donnie, thanks for taking the time to help me sort this out.

If you refer to my first picture you will see the adjustable gears are set completely out of phase. rather than the the straight lines being a match and the adjustment gauge being upwards along with the dowel pins they are out of phase.

This is freaking me out, is this normal untill I get the belt on, loosen the allen keys and then put the gears in phase ?

Again Im sorry for being a pain in the ass, but I have never worked with adjustable gears before, nor have I ever taken a gear off the camshaft.

My concern is that the camshaft itself, is not install into the head cylinder properly, thus the out of phase of my cam gears. or am I just confused as they are adjustable.

 

[kristoph]

he is what I am referring too, picture attached

 

[donniekak]

Take a 17mm wrench. Turn the exhaust cam by the big center bolt 90* counterclockwise, turn the intake cam 90* clockwise. It may be easier for you to order a cam locker so you can lock the gears in time before installing the belt.
https://www.extremepsi.com/store/product.php?productid=28959&cat=0&page=1

But as I mentioned before, the deck surface looks suspect. Ask the shop how they surfaced the head.

 

[kristoph]

I have that gear locking tool actually, from jays racing. I am wondering why the heck the shop didn't have them in phase, to begin with its making me wonder if they had any idea what they where doing, setting them like that.

The deck surface is freaking me out as well, they told me it was flat and within spec so they didn't touch it. That would appear to be the case as you can still see the rings from the HG.

I am no concerned about my new HG sealing. Although previously I had no leaks.

 

[boostdawd]

There is a great video by jafromobile on YouTube about cam degreeing. This is specific to the cams u run. You will need a degreeing wheel and other tools to do it right.

Watch this vid. It will answer a ton of questions as it did for me.

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

 

[kristoph]

is it possible that look is just from them cleaning it ??

 

[kristoph]

Thanks boostdawd, I am actually in the process of accumulating all the tools to do the cam degreeing process, ive been watching those videos and I quite terrified to be honest. Kind of the reason im on the forums panicking

 

[boostdawd]

Dude, right? Felt like I was in an advanced class in math when I watched it. Had to watch it 3-4 times before something stuck. Lots of things are measured and calculations made.

I enjoy the guys videos though he's really thorough.

 

[Paintballaa5]

is it possible that look is just from them cleaning it ??

No, belt sanders are generally not to be used on these heads. Ask them if that's what they used, otherwise you could have sealing issues.

Donnie, thanks for taking the time to help me sort this out.
My concern is that the camshaft itself, is not install into the head cylinder properly, thus the out of phase of my cam gears. or am I just confused as they are adjustable.

This is not possible. You see the dowel pin in the end of the cam, where the gear bolts up? That puts the gear in the correct position on the cam. Now all you have to do is put that dowel facing up at 12 o'clock. The little degree marks will face up as well.
You will NEVER use the adjustable part of the gear to make up for the physical timing being off. You won't touch the adjustment bolts until the whole motor is timed. Just forget they are adjustable and do it like stock.

I just built a motor with kelfords and aem gears, it should look exactly like this when you slip the belt on and start timing.

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Literally just take a 17mm and turn the gears until they are in that orientation.

 

[boostdawd]

@Paintballaa5 not sure if the pic is deceiving but your exhaust cam looks to be out 3 teeth or so.