Calling all suspension gods.

[Insane Performa]

Well I'll give you guys what I got and what I'm thinking. I have a 98 GSX. I'm in Iraq and almost on my way home, looking to put a good suspension setup on it. It will be used for a daily for a little bit and ride doesn't matter. It will see alot of spirited driving and some weekend drag strip time. I'm really thinking that I'm going to use the Koni/GC sleeve spring combo. What I need is a good starting rates and then I will play with rates more later when it's not used for daily driving. I've really every article I can find about rates. These are the rates I've seen use
500/350, 600/400, 650/450, 650/350, 450/350, 550/350, 550/450. I'm also adding the RM bar setup. Ive seen where people say use the front and keep the rear stock and I've seen both. Can someone clarify? How much would that change up the rates I need to start with? with either or? Ive never seen weather or not the spherical bearings and plate setups are need. This car will not be lowered but will be scaled out on racing scales and a really good alignment. I'm going to be using the prothane kit based on your guys opinions when I do the suspension. So my question is what spring rates to give me a good starting point, with the sway bar suggestions. Weather or not that i need the plates and what is the best way to set the camber and toe adjustments. Weather it be camber kit or washers I've seen use. Also I have a question about bump stops, can someone clarify on the bumpstops needed with the Koni/GC setup. I also read to use 8inch springs instead of 7. Thanks for all the help in advance.

 

[a95gsx]

Ive never seen weather or not the spherical bearings and plate setups are need.

You did go to autocross.dsm.org and far north racing dot com right? While the information may be a little old it isn't dated by any means. Some sort of sperical bearing/coaxial mounted spring is a must with the spring rates you mentioned. Look in the 'dsm autocross tech' section focusing on the 2g in esp, 2g in d stock, and 2g in street modified. On DG's sight read the autocross to win section - hell read the whole site there's a lot in there and it is hard arguing with his success.

As far as rates go you'll see that each driver there had his own preference. RRE states the factory rates are 277 lbs/in in front and 165 lbs/in in the rear. I'm running 450/325 and think it is pretty stiff for the bumpy roads around here. Yes there are some real high rates mentioned on both sites, but those were on dedicated race cars usually on smooth racing surfaces. Some of the rates you mentioned will work a stock koni pretty hard.

Since the car is going to start out as a daily driver I'd start soft and work my way up. Spring changes are relatively cheap once the suspension is set up. You won't even need an alignment if you adjust your spring perches to keep the ride height the same as you change springs.

Thumbs up for not wanting to slam it to the ground. Good luck and thanks for you service in the sand box.

 

[Insane Performa]

Thanks for the info and I've read that whole site. So I need to get the sperical bearing/coaxial mounted spring. So start so say the 450/350 but with the RM sway bars does that change up either the front or back that I need to start with? Any helpful sites to get the stuff to set up the tops of the setup? I want to start with a pretty even setup and any comments with the camber kits or washer setups would be helpful.

 

[a95gsx]

If you are going to stay at/near stock ride height a camber kit won't be needed unless you want to add a bit of neg camber. Offset bushings like RRE sells for the front can do this for you. For the rear beckarnley, OBX, and eibach among others make a kit that can give a bit of neg camber. If I had custom offset bushings made for the rear I'd replace the upper knuckle bushing since the stock one is most likely ready for replacing anyway. I'd start off with just the poly kit you've got in mind though they can sometimes have their problems too since they really only allow rotational movement and the ball joints in the front of the 2g need to move fore and aft as they go up/down.

I am using the stock bumpstops on my qa-1's. You could trim them as you see fit but once again staying at near stock ride height I'd leave them alone.


450/350 is as fine a starting point as any...I'd try with the stock bars first (after all this is free) and then if I wanted to fine tune the handling I'd change whichever bar needed it. Keep in mind DG's advice about making mods to stick the front instead of mods that unstick the rear when trying to balance the car.

While lowering the car may improve the CG height it also plays havoc with the factory camber/toe curves and makes it far more likely you end up on the bump stops during cornering. Cars are not go-karts, they work better with a suspension. I think you'll find in the end your car with better shocks/springs at factory ride height will handle better than one slammed to the ground on the average road. I know mine does....So, don't lose sight of the fact that your car has to be streetable or it will not be fun to drive. Those 900lb spring rates won't be enjoyable after the first big bump.

 

[Insane Performa]

Haha thanks. I'm really excited to get home and drive it. I bought it while I've been over here, going to drive it for a week while I get my suspension in. But it's lowered quite a bit and my brother says I'll hate the ride and it doesn't handle good. He's done all maintenance on it for me so I can jump right in it when I get home then I'm getting a daily and building a 2.4 for it. But i'm going to start with suspension and brakes first while I'm building the 2.4. Do you know where I can look into buying the spherical bearings and coaxial plates. Every where I look for setup parts, they have been discontinued . Even at RRE it says their not in stock.

Got 2 more questions while I'm at it. Are the RRE plates 2g upper bearing plates the ones i need for this set up and Just to make sure the GC springs are 2.5 inch? Thanks for the help again.

 

[a95gsx]

Are the RRE plates 2g upper bearing plates the ones i need for this set up and Just to make sure the GC springs are 2.5 inch? Thanks for the help again.

The rre plates would be great if they'd just make some more. DG has mechanical drawings on his site somewhere and has given permission for anyone to make themselves a set - this is for personal use only not to go into business. Most any machine shop could make them for you if you bring in the print. Be sure to shop around cause I have seen prices vary widely from shop to shop for the same job. There were several recent threads in the handling tech forum where people made their own.

GC uses Eibach springs - they are 2.5".

After tons of research I bit the bullet and modded my car to use circle track shocks. I hacked up the front towers a bit, added some brackets, and am running $140ea qa1 shocks (p/n6276). They have worked out very well for me and I am in the process of modding the rears to do the same. This type of shock is readily available in a variety of damping rates, is user revalveable, and user rebuildable. This also opens the door for an upgrade to bilsteins, ohlins, or penskes someday. It does look ghetto as all hell but it makes the spring coaxial, is cheaper than the route you're going, and allows me access to a huge variety of shocks.

 

[Hubbard 0]

If you are going to stay at/near stock ride height a camber kit won't be needed unless you want to add a bit of neg camber. Offset bushings like RRE sells for the front can do this for you. For the rear beckarnley, OBX, and eibach among others make a kit that can give a bit of neg camber. If I had custom offset bushings made for the rear I'd replace the upper knuckle bushing since the stock one is most likely ready for replacing anyway. I'd start off with just the poly kit you've got in mind though they can sometimes have their problems too since they really only allow rotational movement and the ball joints in the front of the 2g need to move fore and aft as they go up/down.

I am using the stock bumpstops on my qa-1's. You could trim them as you see fit but once again staying at near stock ride height I'd leave them alone.


450/350 is as fine a starting point as any...I'd try with the stock bars first (after all this is free) and then if I wanted to fine tune the handling I'd change whichever bar needed it. Keep in mind DG's advice about making mods to stick the front instead of mods that unstick the rear when trying to balance the car.

While lowering the car may improve the CG height it also plays havoc with the factory camber/toe curves and makes it far more likely you end up on the bump stops during cornering. Cars are not go-karts, they work better with a suspension. I think you'll find in the end your car with better shocks/springs at factory ride height will handle better than one slammed to the ground on the average road. I know mine does....So, don't lose sight of the fact that your car has to be streetable or it will not be fun to drive. Those 900lb spring rates won't be enjoyable after the first big bump.

You say that 450/350 is a good starting point, but is that good for everyone or more fitting for his particular goal?

I'm also in need of changing my springs in my GC setup. I think I bought springs for a FWD and only have 150# springs in the rear.

 

[Insane Performa]

Well don't tell many people but RRE has some plates they just got. Lol I'm getting my set if I could confirm that they're the right plate I need. Also Ive decided to go with 425/275 for my first setup with using both RM bars so the ride will be a little better at first, deciding this on a PM I received from PieEyedPeper. Anybody else that has some info on setting up the tops would be so useful. Are the RRE plates the right ones? I'm sorta talking to them via email but thats the only way I can talk bc I'm in Iraq.

 

[a95gsx]

You say that 450/350 is a good starting point, but is that good for everyone or more fitting for his particular goal?

I'm also in need of changing my springs in my GC setup. I think I bought springs for a FWD and only have 150# springs in the rear.

I said 450/350 is as good as any. 425/275 may be better as it is closer to the stock springs ratio. Do take note of how close the two above recomendations are. Final spring rate is going to depend on his preference and local road conditions as much as anything. I do know the 500+/400+ rates he was thinking about would suck on the street 'cause I had 500/400 at one point. It was great for all of 20 minutes.

FWIW RRE states the factory rates are 277/165 and the eibach kit (don't know if it is the pro or sport) is about 320/200. DG's autocross championship car ran 900/400. This should give an idea for a starting point for most as far as rates go. Once you start going over 400lbs/in or so you are going to need some high quality shocks.

GC comes with eibach springs and the rate is painted in white on the spring, it is part of their p/n. 150lb/in is softer than the factory springs. I doubt they sent you that...

 

[Insane Performa]

Anybody have pic with the RRE plates being used on this setup? Or are they the right ones? I have the standoffs made for all the way around and ordered the Koni/GC kit. Going to use the GCs instead of the other springs on the autocross site Any more helpful input would be much appreciated. Thanks guys for the help. First 2g and I want it to be all right.

Does anybody else have any more helpful info? Anything?

 

[Insane Performa]

somebody has to have a comment or did this kind of setup. I've found somebody to make me some plates. However I wouldn't mind using the RRE plates if they work with the setup. I guess I'll just call them and see what they have to say. ANy body have any pics of their setups?

 

[Insane Performa]

Does anybody have any pics up the autocross dsm upper plates? A couple of different views?