Cai question

[Niteninja01]

I'm about to get a cai and was woundering if it does help the turbo to spool up quicker or if that was just a myth. I've heard people say just to get a drop in K&N filter and it's just as good as a cai. If anyone could clear this up for me it would be great thanks.

 

[habitatguy187]

It may help throttle response slightly, but a CAI will be better than a ram air any day, that's already been proven. Turbo cars need as much fresh air as they can get.

 

[idkiliketurbos]

Well from looking around and searching on this topic myself, I havn't come across any cold air intakes for the turbo dsm cars. Just the short ram which has a metal pipe that is very similarly shaped to the stock rubber pipe, and on the other end of the MAS is an open element filter with out the stock airbox. On my car when I bought it, it already had the K&N FIPK so i'm just in need of a hard pipe. The short ram is in the same exact location as the stock set up so it wouldn't really be considered a cold air intake since the piping isn't going any where different to get colder air. Hope that helps you a little bit. And if im wrong about anything i said, please correct me.

 

[Niteninja01]

Thanks, so there is noone that makes a true cai for these cars?

 

[agarc023]

Thanks, so there is noone that makes a true cai for these cars?

Nope. Most people make a custom one once they get a front mount. They use the stock intercooler location and put the filter there

 

[Niteninja01]

I think I might have too look into that, but wouldn't that get alot of water into the filter?

 

[95TalonOwner]

Cai intake for turbo dsm's really isn't needed. The intercooler will take care of cooling the air enough. FMIC will do it better.

 

[agarc023]

I think I might have too look into that, but wouldn't that get alot of water into the filter?

I guess thats one of the problems with it. Some say that you cant get enough water down there to mess up the engine, but better safe than sorry. You could just use one of those waterproof intake sleeves or the AEM bypass valve

 

[95TalonOwner]

You could just use one of those waterproof intake sleeves or the AEM bypass valve

Wouldn't work because of the mass air flow sensor. Plus you would have to relocate the sensor down near the ground which would kill it if it got all wet.

 

[agarc023]

Wouldn't work because of the mass air flow sensor. Plus you would have to relocate the sensor down near the ground which would kill it if it got all wet.

Didn't know that. I swear Ive seen a setup with the mas right in the same spot. I think the person just had a pipe bend down into the smic spot

 

[Niteninja01]

Say if you got a fmic, and just ran a pipe down to the stock intercooler, meaning you don't use a air filter would that work?

 

[95TalonOwner]

Say if you got a fmic, and just ran a pipe down to the stock intercooler, meaning you don't use a air filter would that work?

Why would you want to do that. Just get a metal intake pipe and a K&N filter.

 

[habitatguy187]

Cai intake for turbo dsm's really isn't needed. The intercooler will take care of cooling the air enough. FMIC will do it better.

Not true. Incoming air temp and the size of the filter have a major effect on our cars. The intercooler can only cool so much. Check out these threads.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bol...reduce-ait-log-info-inside-cai-installed.html

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/bolt-tech/153744-air-filter-pressure-drop-results.html


And about sucking up water, anyone ever seafoamed their car? You suck up a lot of seafoam at once, some people make a splash shield to help keep the water away. Either way I've read from some reliable sources that it takes a whole lot of water to hydrolock an engine.

 

[nicho919]

The amount of difference in a CAI and a filter bolted to the turbo is negated entirely as soon as the charge is compressed. Don't bother with a CAI, all that would give you was water hitting your compressor wheel at very high speed.

 

[habitatguy187]

The amount of difference in a CAI and a filter bolted to the turbo is negated entirely as soon as the charge is compressed. Don't bother with a CAI, all that would give you was water hitting your compressor wheel at very high speed.

Ok well you run with your filter on the turbo and I'll run mine like a cai, lets just totally ignore the above link with back to back tests cai and ram air. Also ignore Buschur and many other big dogs who run cai, they must just do it for looks.

 

[nicho919]

... is he building a full out race car? Sure, on a race car, milliseconds matter. Do you really want to ingest water for a 10-15 degree difference in air temp? I don't.

 

[habitatguy187]

^^^ Experience heatsoak and timing being pulled and you'll be searching for ways to lower intake temps. This is not just for the all out racers.

But like I said, you do what you want, it's your car. If you don't believe that it will make a difference then don't do it, that's fine. But telling others that something doesn't improve performance or doesn't matter, when it has been proven time and time again to increase performance, is just plain wrong.



EDIT: I see from your profile that you ditched your heatshields, this is very counter-productive. I too did it at first because I liked the way it looked, but after awhile I realized that it was just slowing me down.

You don't notice intake temps affecting performance as much on a nt car as you do a turbo car, why do you think it's recommended to run premium gas? It's said that every 1 octane point will prevent detonation for another 20*. Cold intake temps are VERY important for a turbo car (meth/water injection, e85, front mount ICs, water to air ICs, heat barrier gaskets.... on and on).

 

[95TalonOwner]

I never said there was no performance gain, IMO if it's a DD then why go through all the trouble to relocate the mass air flow sensor and make the harness for it longer and everything. It would be easier to make an air duct to direct fresh air up towards the stock location or build an isolation box to keep the hot underhood temps away from the intake. Of course relocating the intake would be MUCH easier if someone was on a speed density setup.

 

[habitatguy187]

Most people leave the mas in the same place and just add a 90* elbow after the mas through the fenderwell and attach the air filter to it. You can even use pvc pipe.

 

[Calan]

@ some posts in this thread,

Yes...CAI's work and can add a bit of power. Read what Kletke typed ^^^.

And about sucking up water, anyone ever seafoamed their car? You suck up a lot of seafoam at once, some people make a splash shield to help keep the water away. Either way I've read from some reliable sources that it takes a whole lot of water to hydrolock an engine.

Agreed. With CAI's sucking up water, the problem isn't with hydrolocking (unless you drive through a pond I guess), but the filter can get wet and hold water which causes problems with the MAS. GM MAF's are especially sensitive to moisture.

Personally, I'm very happy with my custom CAI and noticed definite gains when I installed it. Coating the exhaust manifold, turbo hotside and O2 housing (along with running the heat shields) can also drastically cut underhood temps and help keep the intake charge cooler.

 

[1992awdlaser]

habitatguy187 is right. I will finish reading the thread later and reply.

 

[nek]

@projectgs. I think he believes thats 15 psi of air is 15psi. But hes wrong, 15 psi of cold air is actually more 02 then 15 lbs of hot. But when you put it in that context, wouldnt cold air cause more lag then hot? You figure, since it is indeed more 02, the turbo is taking longer to fill up the same area due to density.

 

[tallywacker]

dejon tool makes plenty of pipes for everything DEJON | Powerhouse

 

[91-gsx]

@projectgs. I think he believes thats 15 psi of air is 15psi. But hes wrong, 15 psi of cold air is actually more 02 then 15 lbs of hot. But when you put it in that context, wouldnt cold air cause more lag then hot? You figure, since it is indeed more 02, the turbo is taking longer to fill up the same area due to density.

Maybe I can help. The volume you are drawing in stays the same, but the oxygen content is much higher. Its not like it is harder to draw in cold air, or to compress it. Sure, hot air expands much more easily, but it also lowers the power output of the engine because the oxygen content is lower. If anything, cold air should decrease lag. You are making more power, sooner. This makes the turbo spool up sooner, as well, because your increasing the amount of exhaust flow.

I have run cold air intakes on my 14b, SC61, and now this evo3 16g setup. They make the car faster, more responsive, and not to mention, they allow you to really push the tune. This means more boost, leaner A/F ratios, and more timing. I am working on a ram cold air intake with a velocity stack located in the front of the car. The ram air will introduce pressure in the intake system, and reduce the amount of vacuum that exists in the system. This should lower the pumping losses and increase power. Then throw in the fact that there is a velocity stack at the end of the intake tract, which further increases the velocity of the ram air setup. Then lead that to my 16g's velocity stacked inlet, and you have a high flowing(More so at higher speeds) system. Sorry, I'm just rambling now... I will post pictures of this setup on the forum, soon.

 

[nek]

Hm. Thinking about it, if it does move the same amount of volume then hat makes sense, but Im not sure if I buy it. Its entirely possible your right but I would think because the air is denser, it would be harder to move then lighter air. This lag would be so unnoticeable that its hardly worth discussing but I like to know whats going on.
But on another interesting note, the colder the air entering the system, the more the engines high temp will cause air temp increase which will increase volume of the air once its in the system causing less lag. Amazing.