Building up a motor stay with 2l or go for a 2.4l?

[GreekPower]

Just as the title says. My buddy and I are building up his 6bolt motor for his gst. So what I was wondering is the stroker motor worth it? Does it have less life then a 2l motor cause of paper thin walls?

If we go the stroker route is it better to just do it your self with a kit and get a machine shop to bore and such or just get a race short/long block?

Does the .4l really help the cars performance?

Also where can I find more info about the stroker motors advantages over a built stock motor?

-Lou

And yes I searched just couldn't find what I was looking for.

 

[mitdrx]

Honestly it would depend on your friends performance goals. It may be unnecessary to go with the stroker. More info would be helpful.

 

[versatilx1]

well the stroker 4g64 does have a longer stroke just by the myths you here about the paper thin walls is just bull dont listen to that give me more specifics im actually doing similiar to what you guys are planning to do

 

[turboinside]

Do you have all the supporting mods? Such as fuel pump, regulator, better turbo, boost conrtoller, full exhaust, hard I.C. lines, and open air box? If not then you will not see the 2.4's potential and in my opinion would not really be worth the trouble. If you do have the supporting mods, then by all means go for broke. Just be shure to get some good dyno tune time!

 

[GreekPower]

My friends performance goals are just to be stupidly fast.

someone mentioned the stroke being longer what all does that mean? I'm new to the world of strokers, I've only built up a few motors and they were just 30 over and such.

as for supporting mods? Oh yes so many mods its unrealistic. and for tuning it will all be done by my friend at pampena motorsports in NY. But to answer the question, yes all supporting mods are being covered. (gt37r turbo) need i say more also a all new fuel setup. basically the car is being built from the ground up, nothing is being skipped.
-lou

 

[versatilx1]

To gain the extra .4l displacement, the 4G64 has a very slightly larger bore (4G63 is 3.347" (85.0mm), 4G64 is 3.4055"(86.5mm)), but more importantly, a much longer stroke (4G63 is 3.46" (88mm), while the 4G64 is 3.94"(100mm)). However, the 4G64 shares the same rods with the 2G 4G63T. Thus, the deck on the 4G64 is 6mm higher to compensate for the longer stroke. This is the major difference in the block. A deeper stroke means less balance at higher rpms. The 4g63 has a close ratio between bore and stroke meaning higher revs without damage. However, the 4G64 will produce more torque at the same RPM.

 

[versatilx1]

4G63T Exhaust Manifold (Ported 2g Preferred)
4G63T O2 Sensor Housing (Ported 2g Preferred)
4G63T Downpipe - 2G FWD (aftermarket or custom 2.5" - 3" preferred)
A Turbo (duh!) - 14b, Small 16G, or other. Avoid the stock 2G T25! (16G variant (small, big, EVOIII) preferred)
High-Flow air filter & MAS Adaptor
Intake Pipe from MAS to Turbo (stock 2G OK, aftermarket better)
Intercooler - Stock 2G SMIC OK, FMIC better. NOTE: Stock 2G Intercooler won't fit on a 1996 model without moving the Washer bottle.
Intercooler Piping from turbo to intercooler & intercooler to throttle body (custom connector needed for stock throttle body connection).
Blow off valve (BOV) - 1G is fine
Boost Gauge
EGT Gauge <-- Yes, it's a MUST HAVE
Gauge Mounting (A-Pillar and/or Gauge cluster bezel trim or other)
Gasket: Head to Exhaust Manifold
Gasket: Turbo to Exhaust Manifold
Gasket: O2 Housing to Turbo
Gasket: O2 Housing to downpipe
Spark Plugs: NGK BKR7E (NGK's part number 6097) <-these are 2 heat ranges cooler
Misc Nuts, Bolts, Washers, hose clamps, etc.
Turbo oil Supply Line (Stainless braided preferred)
Turbo oil return Line from a stock 2G setup
2G turbo oil pan (or somehow mount the turbo oil return on your stock oil pan)
Turbo water lines (feed & return) + rubber coolant hose to connect to engine.
Higher flow Fuel Pump (Walbro 190lph is plenty)
Bigger Injectors (Stock 4G63T 450cc Injectors OK with turbo car resistor pack wired in)
Apex-i S-AFC
OBD-II Datalogger

thank Curt at http://www.4g64.150m.com/ this guy knows whats up if your thinking about using a 4g63t head on a 4g64 bottom end its worth it man

 

[wicked93GS]

I say go 2.4, no matter how much of a pain it is, I swapped a 2.4L foe the 2.0L in my neon(which in my case is a lot easier than doing a 4g64 since I already have a 2.4L engine I can use) but the 2.4L was night and day even NA before I turboed it. I built the 2.4 at 8.5:1 compression and it was still faster than the 2.0L when both were NA, as for not spinnging as high as the 2.0 RPM wise....there are people spinning 2.4s to 9000 RPM, true the pistons speeds are much higher....but if you build the motor properly this wont be a problem unless you spend 90% of your time above 7000 RPM, I personally Rev my 2.4 to 7200RPM, but I have no reason to go higher since my cams only make power up to 6800RPM, with a 2.4 thopugh it doesnt matter, you can make sick power without revving the hell out of it, just look at the SRT 4 for example....they can make over 500HP below 6500 RPM, revving is not necessary with an engine with more displacement....and then theres the added torque...on my neon this makes my wheels spin through 1st, 2nd, and chirps them in 3rd, this is with a 20g turbo BTW, but if you have AWD you wont have the same traction problems 2.4 swap= bigger, better, badder ass

 

[Slider925]

If I'm not mistaken the true size of that stroker would be a 2.3L because the 4G64 is the 2.4L. Just thought I'd clear that up.

 

[1gp0wer]

.4L extra- 2.4L = 120% of a 2.0's displacement, that's an increase of 20%. There's no replacement for displacement; it adds the potential for more power, and will also spool that monster much faster than a 2.0L. So yes, it is worth it, and with a turbo that size, I would say it's preferable. The longer stroke means the rod:stroke ratio when using rods the same length as stock will be less than stock. This, as stated earlier in the thread, causes the engine to not balance as well at higher rpms. It can also cause piston-wall contact, as the rod is at a greater angle when the crank position is perpendicular to the stroke. Sorry, there's a less confusing way to describe it I'm sure, but I'm slightly drunk and can't find the words =) .. Magnus Motorsports offers longer rods for stroker setups, that provide a better rod:stroke ratio. If you contact them, they can tell you the exact benefits, and what would be the best for your particular setup. I trust them as a reputable DSM shop; I've never heard of a bad experience with them, and their products are of the highest quality.

You say you're building up your boy's 6-bolt, so you already have the block. But, as cheap as bare blocks are, I would personally go with a 2.4L 6-bolt, which is the G4CS engine out of a Hyundai Sonata. As much money as you're dealing with for complete supporting mods for a gt37, it sounds like you want the best possible setup for the car. A block built from the factory to be 2.4L is preferable in my opinion to a block modified to be 2.3L. (Or 2.4, but if you do that, you will have the thinner walls, which isn't preferable.) Any questions you have on the G4CS engines are on this board, so search around; the best thread I found when I was considering a stroker was this one:
http://www.dsmtuner.com/forums/showthread.php?t=100677&page=3&pp=25&highlight=g4cs

If I were to use a huge turbo on a 2.4L block, I would go for lower than average CR, as you will want to put as much boost into your usable power band as possible. Something around 8:1 is what I was thinking. With the 2.4, you will still gain off-boost torque and spool will be improved, as well as gaining the ability to run more boost from that turbo. More compression than a stock 6-bolt, less than a 7-bolt, and for all other considerations, it's a good middle ground. I'm not sure what versatilx1's last post was about, but it had a good baseline for a mods list for you. If you're really serious about being stupid fast, not worrying overly much about money, and getting all you can out of your engine, I would set the standards a little higher than that particular list. You said you had supporting mods taken care of, though, so I'll assume you know what's necessary as far as tuning and hardware go. If you have any questions, post them, and I'll help you out. But definitely, read through the whole g4cs thread, I'm pretty sure you'll find the g4cs to be your best option.

Good luck,
Justin

 

[GreekPower]

Justin, you other guys that have info about this stroker stuff would you mind sending me a IM at wellhungfor16 thats my aim screen name. Thanks for the help so far.

 

[GreekPower]

Just to give you guys a idea of the parts thats going into this car I'll list all the parts I can remember off the top of my head

Head:
Crower Stage 3 Cams
Unorthodox Racing "Race" cam gears
Ferrera 2mm bronze valve guides
Jackson auto machine daul valve springs kit
Jackson ss auto machine valves
OEM mitsubishi metal headgasket
Kevlar timing belt
BJ's Intake Manifold
Slowboy Racing porting and polishing

Block: Not purchased but thoughts
6bolt block
Weisco forged 7.8:1 compression pistons
Puater(sp) Rods
2.4l forged n nitrated crank
chevites 77 bearings
Unorthodox Racing UDP
"Complete Seal" Rings

Misc. Engine Bay:
Poly Urethan motor mounts
C&R Radiator
Fal Slimline fans

Intake:
Slowboy Racing FMIC kit
Dejon tool intake

Fuel:
Dual Walbro 341 HF pumps (hotwired)
PTE 780cc injectors
Aeromotive FPR
Gallons os C16

Turbo:
GT37R Turbo with special porting and clipping
Tial External Wastegate 46mm
Tial Bov
HKS Turbo Timer type - 1

Electronics:
AEM EMS or Halteck E6K (need more info with tuning regruading dsm's)
Full Set of Greddy 60MM Electronic P/W/H Gauges
Blitz SBC I-D
Blitz Power meter with optional harness
AEM UEGO wideband

Transmission:
Qaulfie LSD
b&m short throw
Spec 5 clutch (or better)

Exhaust:
ATR Downpipe
Custom 3.25 titanium catback
3" O2 Housing's
Full race tubular header


I know theres more mods but thats the one's i know of right now heck I know theres more i Just dont want to look around the shop to see

 

[GreekPower]

No one has anymore info?

If you guys even just want to tell me through aim my screen name is wellhungfor16 Aim is the best way to talk about these right now.

 

[bartels903]

wellhungfor16 sounds like a nasty sick AIM screenname

 

[GreekPower]

its not nasty sick. just gets the girls !