broken crank pulley???

[boost69]

hey i have a 95 talon and i took the 4 bolts out of the crank pulley and then started prying to get the pulley off and it separated the part where the belts go and the part where the bolts go in, how the hell did that happen and should i just replace the pulley?

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Good thing you replaced it now rather than later. Replace it. Its junk now.

 

[thomcasey]

hey i have a 95 talon and i took the 4 bolts out of the crank pulley and then started prying to get the pulley off and it separated the part where the belts go and the part where the bolts go in, how the hell did that happen and should i just replace the pulley?

Yes indeed. Better having it happen there instead of while the motor is running.

 

[boost69]

well i will probably get a after market pulley which doesnt have a spot for the belt, how do i eliminate the ac system?

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Just remove it from the block and take off the bracket. But all the pulleys have the ac belt pulley on them. You ring find one without it.

 

[casperfast]

that is a fairly common problem actually. i have had to replace that on both of my 2g's. it is more than just a pulley tho. it is a harmonic balancer (damper) it is balanced in such a way that it reduced engine vibration and the rubber absorbs alot of stress from the belts against the crank. i wouldn't recommend an after market solid piece unless your not planing on using the vehicle for daily driving. just my .02

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

If you are going with an aftermarket pulley keep in mind that the stocker has a harmonic balancer built in, that's where it broke on yours. This is a highly controversial topic but It is generally considered a bad idea to use a solid crank pulley. The only crank pulleys with a dampener are the OEM, Fluidamper, and ATI (the later two are pretty expensive).

Hope this helps!

 

[casperfast]

is there an echo in here????

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

is there an echo in here????

When I started typing your post wan't there. I guess I need to type faster.

 

[casperfast]

When I started typing your post wan't there. I guess I need to type faster.

no sweat. at least since were both on the same page i know were most likely correct

 

[Oliver@Slowboy]

that is a fairly common problem actually. i have had to replace that on both of my 2g's. it is more than just a pulley tho. it is a harmonic balancer (damper) it is balanced in such a way that it reduced engine vibration and the rubber absorbs alot of stress from the belts against the crank. i wouldn't recommend an after market solid piece unless your not planing on using the vehicle for daily driving. just my .02

If you are going with an aftermarket pulley keep in mind that the stocker has a harmonic balancer built in, that's where it broke on yours. This is a highly controversial topic but It is generally considered a bad idea to use a solid crank pulley. The only crank pulleys with a dampener are the OEM, Fluidamper, and ATI (the later two are pretty expensive).

Hope this helps!

Sorry to burst your bubble guys, this is an internally balanced engine. That is JUST a pulley. Yes the rubber reduces very very minimal vibrations from PS/AC, but nothing you would ever notice, nor would it effect anything.

-Oliver

 

[Colt4G63 also]

Dude, it's not just a pulley, and it has nothing to do with vibrations from the accessories.
Harmonic balancer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Oliver@Slowboy]

Dude, it's not just a pulley, and it has nothing to do with vibrations from the accessories.
Harmonic balancer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Short write up from Unorthodox Racing. Best thing I could find in a hurry.

Crank pulleys are getting confused with a harmonic damper. Another term "Harmonic Balancer" is a loosely used term in the industry. Technically it does not exist. The "balancer" part comes from engines that are externally balanced and have a counterweight on the damper. None of the engines we make pulleys for use a balancer as they are all internally balanced.

The crank pulley on most import and small domestic engines has a rubber ring in the pulley making them look like a damper. The rubber ring quiets noise from the engine accessories (a/c, alternator, power steering, and water pump). The car manufacturers call it NVH control (Noise Vibration & Harshness) of noises that might be heard inside the car. It is important to know amount of weight mounted outside the rubber ring is too small in size to act as an effective damper. Many crank pulleys have no rubber at all. Examples are some Honda B & D Series engines, the Nissan Altima, the 1.8L Eclipse, 2.3L Fords, Chrysler 2.2L's, and 1.8L SOHC VW's. Most owners who have installed ## crank pulleys notice the engine feels smoother. This is because the stock crank pulley is not as well balanced as our crank pulley. NVH from the crank pulley is small but it can increase much more with the installation of aftermarket intake and/or exhausts. As an example stock intakes use baffles and resonators to quiet intake noise. Aftermarket intakes eliminate the resonators and create big increases in engine noise when you hit the throttle. To most car owners some type of NVH can make the driving experience more enjoyable because you can really hear the engine noises.

The traditional damper protects against crank failure from torsional movement and crankshaft frequencies. A damper is not necessary on most modern engines because of engine design. The reason why are things like shorter stroke length, smaller displacement, shorter piston dwell time, no piston pin off-sets. More importantly the actual tune (computer programming) is the biggest factor in the potential for engine damage. Poor tuning leads to detonation which is an engine killer that no damper can stop.

 

[donniekak]

Short write up from Unorthodox Racing. Best thing I could find in a hurry.

The stocker is a harmonic damper, it dampens torsional vibrations in the crank that are harmful. Underdrive pulleys are junk, and provide no benefit, other than the a/c not blowing cold at idle, and low alternator output at low rpm's. Of course a company that makes them is going to say they are ok. Show me any SAE document that states that an undampended crank is a good idea on a performance engine.

 

[casperfast]

"device connected to the crankshaft of an engine to reduce torsional vibration " from wiki....... soooooo. no im not wrong. and it reduces "stress" from the accessories on the crank. that is important on an engine such as a 4g63 especially since it is subject to..... dare i say it........ CRANK WALK

 

[Oliver@Slowboy]

The stocker is a harmonic damper, it dampens torsional vibrations in the crank that are harmful. Underdrive pulleys are junk, and provide no benefit, other than the a/c not blowing cold at idle, and low alternator output at low rpm's. Of course a company that makes them is going to say they are ok. Show me any SAE document that states that an undampended crank is a good idea on a performance engine.

Never condoned under drive pulleys, it was the write up I found first. The also sell stock diameter pulleys, but that is an irrelevant point. A solid pulley is fine, I have seen them used time and time again without issue. With the mod list the OP has I don't see this as needing an ATI or Fluidampr. You can get a solid pulley considerably cheaper than an OEM Mitsu and most of the "oem equivalent" options I have seen are junk.

More info on balancing. (pulled from a V8 site due to content)

Balancing Act

The process of balancing begins by equalizing the reciprocating mass in each of the engine’s cylinders. This is done by weighing each piston on a sensitive digital scale to determine the lightest one in a set. The other pistons are then lightened to match that weight by milling or grinding metal off a non-stressed area such as the wrist pin boss. The degree of precision to which the pistons are balanced will vary from one engine builder to another, and depends to some extent on the application. But generally speaking pistons are balanced to within plus or minus 0.5 grams of one another.

Next the rods are weighed, but only one end at a time. A special support is used so that the big ends of all the rods can be weighed and compared, then the little ends. As with the pistons, weights are equalized by grinding away metal to within 0.5 grams. It’s important to note that the direction of grinding is important. Rods should always be ground in a direction perpendicular to the crankshaft and wrist pin, never parallel. If the grinding scratches are parallel to the crank, they may concentrate stress causing hairline cracks to form.

On V6 and V8 engines, the 60 or 90 degree angle between the cylinder banks requires the use of "bobweights" on the rod journals to simulate the reciprocating mass of the piston and rod assemblies. Inline four and six cylinder crankshafts do not require bobweights. To determine the correct weight for the bobweights, the full weight of a pair of rod bearings and the big end of the connecting rod, plus half the weight of the little end of the rod, piston, rings, wrist pin (and locks if full floating) plus a little oil are added together (100 percent of the rotating weight plus 50 percent of the reciprocating weight). The correct bobweights are then assembled and mounted on the crankshaft rod journals.

The crankshaft is then placed on the balancer and spun to determine the points where metal needs to be added or removed. The balancer indexes the crank and shows the exact position and weight to be added or subtracted. The electronic brain inside the balancer head does the calculations and displays the results. The latest machines have graphical displays that make it easy to see exactly where the corrections are needed.

If the crank is heavy, metal is removed by drilling or grinding the counterweights. Drilling is usually the preferred means of lightening counterweights, and a balancer that allows the crank to be drilled while still on the machine can be a real time saver.


If the crank is too light, which is usually the case on engines with stroker cranks or those that are being converted from externally balanced to internally balanced, heavy metal (a tungsten alloy that is 1.5 times as heavy as lead) is added to the counterweights. This is usually done by drilling the counterweights, then press fitting and welding the heavy metal plugs in place. An alternate technique is to tap the hole and thread a plug into place. Drilling the holes sideways through the counterweights parallel to the crank rather than perpendicular to the crank is a technique many prefer because it prevents the metal from being flung out at high rpm.

After drilling, the crankshaft is again spun on the balancer to determine if additional corrections are required. If the crank is for an externally balanced engine (such as a big block Chevy), the balancing will be done with the flywheel and damper installed. On internally balanced engines, the flywheel and damper can be balanced separately, or installed on the crank and balanced as an assembly once the crank itself has been balanced.

New machinery has been introduced that both simplifies the balancing process and increases the accuracy of the job. Electronic equipment that allows accurate measurement of not only the amount of unbalance force, but also accurately reports the unbalanced vector position is now available to engine rebuilders. Typically, balancing machines have assumed that the unbalance force was equally opposed, so they would require the technician to correct the excessive amounts of unbalance on the excess side to the point of making them equal. Technicians have had to ‘stair-step’ the corrections equally until the final tolerance was attained.

"device connected to the crankshaft of an engine to reduce torsional vibration " from wiki....... soooooo. no im not wrong. and it reduces "stress" from the accessories on the crank. that is important on an engine such as a 4g63 especially since it is subject to..... dare i say it........ CRANK WALK

Yes everything causes crank walk.

 

[SpawnedX]

Anyone who brought crankwalk up into this should sell their car, because you are clearly clueless.

It's not a balancer, our engines are internally balanced. We have a harmonic damper. I doubt it does any better at dampening torsional vibration harmonics than a piece of cardboard paper would. If you are going to replaced it go Fluidampr (or ATI if that's your cup of tea).

However our stocker is not just a pulley.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

The dampener is definitely needed. If it wasnt, then Mitsu wouldnt have designed the car with one. When you knock, when you run more boost, whenever the car goes through more stress, the dampener is going to be helpful where as the solid pulley would hurt. I wouldnt ever recommend any thing other than a stock dampener or fluidampr.


Also, even though we have a internally balanced motor, thats with stock equipment. So when people go changing shit connected to the crank, you have to rebalance the motor. So decreasing the weight of the dampener and going with a solid pulley will HURT the motor. Mitsu designed the car fully knowning the certain weights on either side of the crank. Thats why a FULL balance should be performed when you rebuild your car with a light weight flywheel and a fluidampr.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

If you are going with an aftermarket pulley keep in mind that the stocker has a harmonic balancer built in, that's where it broke on yours. This is a highly controversial topic but It is generally considered a bad idea to use a solid crank pulley. The only crank pulleys with a dampener are the OEM, Fluidamper, and ATI (the later two are pretty expensive).

Hope this helps!

^ I'm going to quote myself on this one.

It is a harmonic damper, not just a pulley. That is a fact. Whether or not it is needed is the source of all the controversy.

I personally, based on what I have read, would never use a solid crank pulley even though they are significantly cheaper.

The OP can research and make his own decision on what to purchase to replace his broken stock harmonic damper. The options are a solid pulley, an OEM harmonic damper, or an aftermarket harmonic damper.

 

[casperfast]

hmmm, sell my car? well..... it is added directional and side to side torque on the engine just running ANYTHING off the crank sideways. even the water pump puts up to 200 lbs on the crank alone @ 4000 rpm .... this WILL contribute to crank walk on an engine with a poor thurst bearing design such as the 4g63. just bite the buck and get the oem one from the mitsu dealer, or buy an oem one somewhere else. ive paid as much as $180 and as cheap as $75 for a new oem pulley. it does the dsm good.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

just bite the buck and get the oem one from the mitsu dealer, or buy an oem one somewhere else. ive paid as much as $180 and as cheap as $75 for a new oem pulley. it does the dsm good.

I got mine from Buschur Racing for $120 I believe.

Just to clarify, OEM means Mitsubishi. Don't go to Auto Zone and get the $80 special.

Check this out just for a quick comparison of the prices for the Mitsubishi, Fluidamper, and ATI.

 

[casperfast]

I got mine from Buschur Racing for $120 I believe.

Just to clarify, OEM means Mitsubishi. Don't go to Auto Zone and get the $80 special.

Check this out just for a quick comparison of the prices for the Mitsubishi, Fluidamper, and ATI.

Original Equipment Manufacture OEM all the way. oem parts can be found cheaper than dealer prices at other places, just gotta look. i have seen the napa special ones fall apart after 2 months of daily driving

 

[SpawnedX]

Again it's not a harmonic balancer, it is a harmonic damper. I just explained this a few posts up. So ignorance is not an excuse.

For everyone preaching OEM, well OEM is designed for a stock block and to dampen certain vibrations, also known as a "tuned" harmonic damper. So get a Fluidampr (or ATI) and be done with it. Not only will it not separate like this one, but it gives you room to grow.

 

[9!'clipseDOHC]

Again it's not a harmonic balancer, it is a harmonic damper. I just explained this a few posts up. So ignorance is not an excuse.

For everyone preaching OEM, well OEM is designed for a stock block and to dampen certain vibrations, also known as a "tuned" harmonic damper. So get a Fluidampr (or ATI) and be done with it. Not only will it not separate like this one, but it gives you room to grow.

It seems like we are arguing just for the sake of arguing. As far as I can tell a Harmonic balancer and a harmonic damper are two terms for the same thing. What is the difference?

I am not preaching OEM. I am preaching the use of a crank pulley with a harmonic damper/balancer as opposed to a solid crankshaft pulley. Be it OEM or aftermarket.

The OP can research and make his own decision on what to purchase to replace his broken stock harmonic balancer. The options are a solid pulley, an OEM harmonic balancer, or an aftermarket harmonic balancer.

 

[99gst_racer]

It seems like we are arguing just for the sake of arguing. As far as I can tell a Harmonic balancer and a harmonic damper are two terms for the same thing. What is the difference?

It's like boots and sandals. They're both footwear, but they're not the same thing.

A harmonic damper is neutrally balanced and is there to reduce torsional vibrations. A harmonic balancer does this as well, but it's also counterweighted specifically to balance out the rotating assembly on externally balanced engines. If you mix them up on an engine, you could be in trouble. So it's worth distinguishing the difference in discussion as well.