bottom end build

[richi908]

Hi, im planing on boosting but first would like to some ones opinion on what im planning on doing. so here it is. BTW onli going for (200hp-275hp)
1-Main Bearing
Clevite Main Bearing Set Eclipse/Talon 420a - CI Motorsports
2-Rod Bearing
Clevite Rod Bearing Set Eclipse/Talon 420a - CI Motorsports
3-Rods
Eagle Connecting Rod Set 95-99 Mitsubishi Eclipse/Talon 420a
im still looking for 9.5.1 pistons and new rings. was looking at NPR Pistons with Complete Ring but they are 9.6.1 any input would help out. ty

 

[VelocitàPaola]

I recommend 8.8:1 pistons if you're going to boost. JE and Wiseco are good names in the piston industry.

 

[Smash_NDash]

ditto on the JE/Wiesco pistons!

also pick up some Main Studs as well as Headstuds (both ARP)


BTW make sure your knowledgable on how to properly break in a new engine so your rings get seated.


Ive heard that CImotorsports has REALLY BAD customer service.

 

[99RedGs]

ditto on the JE/Wiesco pistons!

also pick up some Main Studs as well as Headstuds (both ARP)


BTW make sure your knowledgable on how to properly break in a new engine so your rings get seated.


Ive heard that CImotorsports has REALLY BAD customer service.

You shouldn't need ARP mains, but get the ARP head studs.

I haven't personally dealt with Cimotorsports, but the guys on 2gnt instructed me to steer clear from them. Check out Raceeng.com and Summitracing.com for parts, MAPerformance sells parts for us as well and they are even having a sale.

I am in your same shoes right now and have been doing a lot of research to find reliable vendors and parts lists. I would head over to 2gnt.com and do some reading if you haven't already. There is a step by step rebuild write-up and break in process over there in the articles.

 

[ryanmeekins3]

I recommend 8.8:1 pistons if you're going to boost. JE and Wiseco are good names in the piston industry.

this is good to hear. i have 8:8:1 wiseco's. i have stock rods in my car and hope to have 350whp eventually. does anyone know what are the stock rods are rated for?

 

[VelocitàPaola]

this is good to hear. i have 8:8:1 wiseco's. i have stock rods in my car and hope to have 350whp eventually. does anyone know what are the stock rods are rated for?

Not much... the rods are the weakest link in the 420A. I'd upgrade to Eagle forged rods.

 

[richi908]

ty for the info really helps out. also what is the stock head rated at or should u upgrade it?

 

[99RedGs]

You wont NEED to upgrade the head. It has been up to 500hp in stock form so I don't think you will reach its limitations going for 250-300hp

 

[ryanmeekins3]

Not much... the rods are the weakest link in the 420A. I'd upgrade to Eagle forged rods.

well dang, so they won't be able to handle 350whp?

 

[glowryder]

^ most likely not.. that's almost 3 x what they were designed to handle.. Theres about 50 threads in the 420a forum describing what you need to make power, Id suggest reading them.

OP sounds like your on the right track with researching! I agree, 8.8:1 , wiesco or JE, and some ARP head studs, and eagle rods, you should be set. Keep reading and make sure your goal , is really what you want, its important when i build a car for myself or some one that their goal is truly what they want, if they want more power later, it usually costs 2x more then if we would have built it for that goal in the first place.

 

[ryanmeekins3]

^ most likely not.. that's almost 3 x what they were designed to handle.. Theres about 50 threads in the 420a forum describing what you need to make power, Id suggest reading them.

OP sounds like your on the right track with researching! I agree, 8.8:1 , wiesco or JE, and some ARP head studs, and eagle rods, you should be set. Keep reading and make sure your goal , is really what you want, its important when i build a car for myself or some one that their goal is truly what they want, if they want more power later, it usually costs 2x more then if we would have built it for that goal in the first place.

Ya, my bro had the engine built before he gave me the car with the forged pistons. He keeps telling me the car will handle 350 whp, however, when I asked him if he had the rods replaced he says no! Is it true that with really good dyno tuning with say MS, I could keep the stock rods?

 

[cimotorsports]

Id go with the following if your only looking for some mlld boost and hp

Clevite Main and Rod Bearings
Eagle Connecting Rods
Wiseco 8.8:1 Pistons
ARP Head Studs
Cometic Head Gasket


Would leave the head stock, weve made pretty high hp on all stock head setups and 300hp is no problem..

 

[99RedGs]

So your brother went through all of the work and money to have the stock rods machined to accept A full floating wrist pin that is required to run forged pistons, instead of just paying $320 for forged rods??.....

Seems like he made a mistake or isn't telling you something

 

[Shake_Zulla]

So your brother went through all of the work and money to have the stock rods machined to accept A full floating wrist pin that is required to run forged pistons, instead of just paying $320 for forged rods??.....

Seems like he made a mistake or isn't telling you something

Agreed, not saying your brother is lying to you, but maybe he made some mistakes or didn't fully understand what was going on. My suggestion is to treat it like a stock block untill you know what is inside it. It doesn't matter what tune you run, pushing over 8psi is not recomended on stock internals and it would be a serious long shot to hit 350hp on 8psi.

@ OP: I think it was the op that asked if he needed to build the head... this thread has been jack numerous times its hard to keep track. Anyhow the head doesn't need to be built but you could probably reach your HP goals with lower psi if you do some stuff to increase your volumetric efficiency.

 

[95talongirl]

Like mentioned already, go with the lower compression pistons, since this will open up more room for boost pressure.

Also, ARP rod bolts are nice to have.

What about the crankshaft? I'm not 100% positive what the 420A's run for a crank; material wise. But since you are looking for ~300HP, I'd assume you'd be ok... but never hurts to look into it.

When using a Cometic gasket, make sure you have both the head and block machined correctly for it. Also, follow the instructions! The ones for the 4g63 say to install dry...

 

[Shake_Zulla]

What about the crankshaft? I'm not 100% positive what the 420A's run for a crank; material wise. But since you are looking for ~300HP, I'd assume you'd be ok... but never hurts to look into it.

When using a Cometic gasket, make sure you have both the head and block machined correctly for it. Also, follow the instructions! The ones for the 4g63 say to install dry...

The stock crank will handle anything a semi-closed deck will if it is in good condition.

Also a MLS head gasket is recomended but yes you are right the block must be decked and the head resurfaced. Also there is a ongoing argument over using copper spray or not... I prefer dry.

 

[ryanmeekins3]

Agreed, not saying your brother is lying to you, but maybe he made some mistakes or didn't fully understand what was going on. My suggestion is to treat it like a stock block untill you know what is inside it. It doesn't matter what tune you run, pushing over 8psi is not recomended on stock internals and it would be a serious long shot to hit 350hp on 8psi.

@ OP: I think it was the op that asked if he needed to build the head... this thread has been jack numerous times its hard to keep track. Anyhow the head doesn't need to be built but you could probably reach your HP goals with lower psi if you do some stuff to increase your volumetric efficiency.

Sorry to the OP if I jacked your thread, I still can't make new threads in the 420a section because I don't have enough tech posts and thought my questions could possible benefit others and me. And I was planning on MS and 15psi soon but now I'll be calling the machine shop to see if they have any info for me. thanks for the help though.

 

[richi908]

I have a quick question after motor is put together are ther any s supporting mods dat I need to do beside tuning? For example bigger injector fuel pump ?

 

[dsm_92_fwd]

Injector size will vary, depending on what you want your IDC's to be and what you think is best for your build. Asking questions never hurt anyone and its best to see and compare rather to go in blind. As for fuel you will definatly need to upgrade youre fuel system. This also needs to be taken into account via if you want to run e85 or stick with your 93 pump fuel. If going e85 i recommend bigger fuel lines, pump, and injectors. But seeing as the 420a is pretty different from the 4g63 i cannot give you a accurate assumption of injectors. Although for 350whp a Walboro 255 fuel pump should suffice your needs. Last comes down to tuning this new fuel system, not sure if anyone has hit on this yet but you most definatly need tuning software. From last i heard Megasquirt was pretty popular with the 420a guys. Good luck on build man, cant wait to read your thread! Need advice all you gotta do is ask!

 

[Shake_Zulla]

It all kinda depends on what your goal is. Under 8psi you will need a bigger fuel pump, fmu and missing link. If you are going 8+psi you will need a plan on how you are going to get more fuel to your car at high rpms while not drowning it at idle. Most step up to MS or portfueler. I suggest reading this...
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/420a-turbo-conversion/366603-end-all-parts-list-go-turbo.html
BTW stock injectors work fine for a 8psi or under build and I wouldn't suggest steppin up to bigger untill you are running a fuel management system.