boosted97gst running 12s with 16G on fwd

[95talonturbo]

Originally posted by Phoenix_RsX


Aren't you AWD? if so, you just missed the entire point of that comment bro.

no why would you get that impression

 

[larryd]

Originally posted by 95talonturbo


It may not be easy, but it is possible. I'm hoping for atleast low 13s on pump gas. As far as traction goes, it is fairly good. I do not get much wheel spin at 17psi in first and can go full throttle in second to 20psi on my big16g. This is in cold weather and no burning out to warm up the tires. You definetly need a good suspension and tires to get there. What has your car run at the track larryd? You are probably getting all that wheel spin because of the wheels and tires you are using.

I never ran 17psi with even my big28 so I always had traction problems as I ran 22-23 lbs of boost on pump gas. Even if I nailed the launch like my one 2.1 I hit I would mess up and shift hard into 2nd and spin throughout that gear instead. My times on the L2R dont even qualify because I had bad gas in the car when I went.

I have AWD now so Im not quite as worried about this anymore. I just wanted to enlighten anyone who has a FWD that thinks 12s are easy they have another thing coming to them. Ive seen very few FWDs break the 13 second barrier.

 

[95talonturbo]

Originally posted by larryd


I never ran 17psi with even my big28 so I always had traction problems as I ran 22-23 lbs of boost on pump gas. Even if I nailed the launch like my one 2.1 I hit I would mess up and shift hard into 2nd and spin throughout that gear instead. My times on the L2R dont even qualify because I had bad gas in the car when I went.

I have AWD now so Im not quite as worried about this anymore. I just wanted to enlighten anyone who has a FWD that thinks 12s are easy they have another thing coming to them. Ive seen very few FWDs break the 13 second barrier.

I run 20-22psi on the 16g, but I do not give it full throttle in first or else it starts to spin.. 17psi seems around where I can still acclerate and not spin.. Did you hit 2.1 on the rims and tires in your sig? I did want an awd, but I did not want to go through the hassle of getting another car since I do not have money to afford it.. Right now I am setting up for bigger wheels, 255s, or maybe bigger. I am running 245/50/16s and they stick out just a little bit. They're plenty of quick awd dsm's out there and I would like to be one of the few quick fwd dsm's.. My car is a street car and most races I race are from a roll, so I would not benefit from awd as much.. I have not taken my car to the track yet, but I have beaten plenty of 13 second cars, so I know my car runs somewhere in the 13s as it is.. I really can't complain about traction right now, but I'm sure when I upgrade to an fp green that will be a different story.. I have stayed even with a modded wrx in second gear from about 40mph and I do not think that is too bad for my fwd 16g.. Most fwd owners do not seem to focus on suspension and tire upgrades as much as they do for power adders. IMO suspension should be done first in a fwd before adding all that power..

 

[larryd]

yes the 2.1 was on my 17s with these tires/wheels. I ran 2.3s pretty consisent not that that is something to be proud of

My problem with the FWD and anything larger then a 16G sized turbo is that if I gave it full throttle in say 3rd gear from a 3000rpm roll I would spin the tires.

 

[95talonturbo]

Originally posted by larryd
yes the 2.1 was on my 17s with these tires/wheels. I ran 2.3s pretty consisent not that that is something to be proud of

My problem with the FWD and anything larger then a 16G sized turbo is that if I gave it full throttle in say 3rd gear from a 3000rpm roll I would spin the tires.

2.3 doest seem too bad for those wheels and tires that size. Especially a 2.1. What kind of tires were you running? Anything larger than a 16g will seem like it will cause a lot of problems with spinning. My friend had a 350whp fwd dsm and he said that spun in 3rd too. It doesnt seem like too many people go higher than a 225 tire, so I am hoping by running bigger tires it will help with wheel spin. I might try sticking on 255/50/16 with out wider fenders, but I am not sure how it would look yet. I already have longer wheel studs and they should allow me to run up to a 1inch spacer, if necessary. I like the fwd because it is more challenging to get going quicker than the awd. Have you ever had your car dynoed with the 16g or l2r? Wheel spin on a 16g shouldnt be too much of a problem, but since you are running 17s with low profile tires I am sure that doesnt help much. What kind of plans do you have for the awd?

 

[larryd]

well the tires are kuhmo ecsta supras in 225/45/17 I believe. I never had a 16G but I did have Big28 which is near identical but faster spooling. And yes I did dyno o nthe both that and the L2R. On the big28 I put down 280whp, on the L2R I put down 383whp.

 

[95talonturbo]

Originally posted by larryd
well the tires are kuhmo ecsta supras in 225/45/17 I believe. I never had a 16G but I did have Big28 which is near identical but faster spooling. And yes I did dyno o nthe both that and the L2R. On the big28 I put down 280whp, on the L2R I put down 383whp.

383whp is impressive, what do you have done to the engine? What psi was the 383whp at? The track will be opening up soon, so I will see if I can even get somewhere in the low-mid 13s my first time out I will be happy. I do not really plan to run 12s with my set up inless I use race gas and lots of practice at the track, but I will be getting a new turbo by that time so it should be easier to run 12s.

 

[Jon Smith]

Originally posted by 95talonturbo

Right now I am setting up for bigger wheels, 255s, or maybe bigger. I am running 245/50/16s and they stick out just a little bit.

What width rim do you have the 245's mounted on? I'm running 225/55 Michelin Piolts on Probe GT rims now. 20psi on 14b (pump gas) and I cannot get solid traction until 3rd gear... I'm soon due for tires, and plan on stepping up to either 235s or 245s, probably in a DR tire of some sort.

HR Sport springs and GR2 struts, I'm hoping to ditch the GR2s for something stiffer. I'm still getting quite a bit of weight transfer, which is defintely contributing to the 2.4-2.6 60's.

Best of [email protected] now, hoping to get into the 12s this season.

 

[95talonturbo]

It is an 8 inch rim. You might not need a bigger tire, just a stickier one. I used to run 225/50/16 retreads and I got full traction in second gear most of the time. I had full traction from a roll every time in second gear with them. I do not know how much different it is from a 1g, but on a 2g you might need longer wheel studs to run a 245 tire. What size rim are you using? Longer wheel studs and wheel spacers might be necessary to run 245s depending on the side wall ratio and the size of your rim..

 

[Jon Smith]

The Probe rim is 16x8, although I'm not sure about the backspacing... Much wider and I'll have to trim the fenders

 

[larryd]

Originally posted by 95talonturbo


383whp is impressive, what do you have done to the engine? What psi was the 383whp at? The track will be opening up soon, so I will see if I can even get somewhere in the low-mid 13s my first time out I will be happy. I do not really plan to run 12s with my set up inless I use race gas and lots of practice at the track, but I will be getting a new turbo by that time so it should be easier to run 12s.

L2R @ 28lbs of boost on C16. You can see all of my mods in my sig. BTW that was with bad timing, the car could have easily put down 415-425 at that boost level if I knew my head from a hole in the wall when it comes to tuning.

 

[Phoenix_RsX]

Larry, you just gotta rub that in don't ya. I don't care who says what, that's damn impressive bro, race gas or not. I hope to be able to pull something even remotely close to that when I FINALLY put her on a dyno this Friday. It would have been yesterday........damn snow.

 

[larryd]

good luck, let us know how it goes.

 

[Phoenix_RsX]

yeah man, I'll be sure to fill you in.....2 more days....I'm getting quite excited.....mainly because I don't know what to expect. I'd like to have 325 hp tho.....too bad that won't be at the wheels......yet .

 

[Phoenix_RsX]

24 hours before my first dyno and tune, my alt S#!^s the bed!! GAH!!! I'm hoping to have it replaced in time tomorrow to still go. Ed hooked me up with the install sheet, it LOOKS easy.......oh well, only one way to find out huh?

 

[DSMu4ia]

You guys give up WAY too early on FWD's.

When my car was making 308whp, pump gas, 16g, I had zero traction problems. I say ZERO. ZERO compared with most idiots.

Sure the car spun first gear, but hell, AWD's with similar WHP will do the same on a good launch.

2nd gear with street tires (225-45-17) would spin in 2nd on the street, but I could "drive" around that problem and roll into it and go 100% WOT with no spin.

With drag radials on the car (Nitto's) the car was a monster. Rolling around in first only brought spin in the high RPM's. I could rip 2nd as hard as I could, and it would never spin.

Case in point, the only other car I lost to on a launch (when I rolled around with drag radials) was another DSM (AWD). This is way before the wonderful DSMlink was out for 2g's with studderbox.

Anyways, if you guys are spinning 3rd gear, I suggest you take a step back, and get that fixed before putting down more mods.

Suspension, poly mounts, subframe bushings, and a few other things that you will have to figure out on your own go a long way to getting a FWD to hook.

Now on the other hand, I just finished up tuning my friends 96. Damn near bone stock wtih DSM-Link, UIPC, 1g BOV, some old ported stuff off of my car. #### tires, stock suspension, stupid fast spooling turbo, and no LSD. The car MELTS 2nd gear. Feels DAMN strong for a t-25, and it pulls to redline with ease. Even in 3rd gear.

I'll be sure to let you know all the secrets of getting a 120mph+ trapping FWD to hook on the street without slicks once it's done. Because as of now, they are just hand me down secrets from FORMER very fast WWD DSM's, and I can't pass along untested information. Should be about 2 months away.

Enjoy.

 

[95talonturbo]

I agree with DSMu4ia. I have no traction problems with my 16g either, aside from some spinning in the high rpms in first with 20+psi. How does the studderbox help FWD with launching? I am getting a DSMlink within a month. I would definetly like to know how to get a 120+mph FWD to hook on the street. That is my goal right now. I will be getting an FP Red and I hoping the slower spooling will help a little bit with the traction problems I will encounter. I am ordering it this weekend and hopefully I'll have it in by mid March. DSMu4ia, what did your car run in the 1/4 mile? Also I have a set of 245/50/16s to help with traction problems. Anyone else using this size or bigger with a lowered car?

 

[NOMIEZVR4]

really interesting thread, my goal is 108 traps in the 1/4mile. i just got a mkiv smic, porting my turbo and im going to run 19-20 lbs boost on 14b. also getting 190lph fp, and rewire. do u guys think it will work? i got kumho 712's on stock rims.

 

[NOMIEZVR4]

i also have a uicp, intake pipe, 02 dump

 

[DSMu4ia]

Originally posted by 95talonturbo
I agree with DSMu4ia. I have no traction problems with my 16g either, aside from some spinning in the high rpms in first with 20+psi. How does the studderbox help FWD with launching? I am getting a DSMlink within a month. I would definetly like to know how to get a 120+mph FWD to hook on the street. That is my goal right now. I will be getting an FP Red and I hoping the slower spooling will help a little bit with the traction problems I will encounter. I am ordering it this weekend and hopefully I'll have it in by mid March. DSMu4ia, what did your car run in the 1/4 mile? Also I have a set of 245/50/16s to help with traction problems. Anyone else using this size or bigger with a lowered car?

Studderbox just guarantee's you can launch at the same RPM all the time. No guesswork. Of course...road condition will vary a bit.

Lag helps. No doubt about it. Linear boost is good too.

My car went 108mph traps here and there, it was before I knew much about tuning and setting a car up to run reliable. One weekend it would do 100mph traps, next weekend, it would do 106mph. If I had the car in it's old state still, it'd do 110mph on pump gas (16g) day in and day out. ET's sucked, alot of problems, I only hit the track for about 30 passes in 8 months. Majority were mid 13's at under 104mph. Car had other issues most of the time.

Car will ride on 225-45-17 Drag Radials when it's done.

If those don't muster, then it's up to 245's. You will need to space them out a little further if memory serves correct.

Get rid of wheelhop first, then move to traction. Sacrifice your kidney's for traction. Metal motor mounts, and prothane bushings all around are your friend. Keep that @$$ hard, and your nose soft.

 

[95talonturbo]

Originally posted by DSMu4ia
If those don't muster, then it's up to 245's. You will need to space them out a little further if memory serves correct.

With my 245/50/16s the tire does stick out a little bit. I have rx7 rims on there with spacers. My car is also lowered. If traction is still a big problem I will move up to 255s if they fit how I want them too.

 

[DSMu4ia]

Originally posted by 95talonturbo


With my 245/50/16s the tire does stick out a little bit. I have rx7 rims on there with spacers. My car is also lowered. If traction is still a big problem I will move up to 255s if they fit how I want them too.

Ya, I'm well aware of fitment issues. Hell my 225-45-17's rubbed in the back if I had a fat person in the passenger seat, or ANYONE in the back. Over bumps and stuff only.

I have some trick other stuff coming, like flaring the front fenders, DRAG wing in the back if I can ever get one to look right, etc.

Y'all will see soon enough.

 

[tallywacker]

What about phantom grips LSD's? There only $300. I know there not "real" LSD's but they function just the same as the other and many drag and rally cars use them.
www.phantomgrip.com

 

[DSMu4ia]

Originally posted by tallywacker
What about phantom grips LSD's? There only $300. I know there not "real" LSD's but they function just the same as the other and many drag and rally cars use them.
www.phantomgrip.com

Get the B+M.

Stronger and cheaper.

I have a Phantom Grip and it's fine. I like it. But B+M would have been better and can hold all the power thrown at it.

 

[boosted97gst]

Thanks red eclipse. My car was pulling good that day. I had ran a 13.1, 13.0,13.0, then I finally hit the 12.9. I was running 14" bf goodrich drag radials with 12 psi of air. Boost was set to 23 psi and 116 octane leaded race fuel. It also helps that the track was well prepped with vht. It was tough with my mods, fwd, and a stock differential, but its possible.