boost problem STILL

[crazyquik22023]

ok so I have a tial 44mm with a 1.1 bar spring dumped, and with my mbc hooked up it wouldn't boost past 20 psi I took that off bc I though maybe it was broken and with the side port of the wastegate hooked up to the compressor housing of my 6262 it won't boost past 15 psi. no boost leaks at all so this has to be a wastegate prob right? also if it is what would be the most likelihood cause bad spring? bad diaphragm? let me know what u guys think

 

[gofer]

ok so I have a tial 44mm with a 1.1 bar spring dumped, and with my mbc hooked up it wouldn't boost past 20 psi I took that off bc I though maybe it was broken and with the side port of the wastegate hooked up to the compressor housing of my 6262 it won't boost past 15 psi. no boost leaks at all so this has to be a wastegate prob right? also if it is what would be the most likelihood cause bad spring? bad diaphragm? let me know what u guys think

First off, Tial doesn't make a 1.1 bar spring... There 1.1 bar setup is a combination of two springs (big yellow & a small red) just so everyone knows that reads this.
What you did to troubleshoot WHY you couldn't build more than 20psi makes no sense. You turned up your boost controller as high as it would go still only boosting 20psi, correct? So you removed it and ran the vacuum line from the turbo to the wastegate to control boost and see if you could build more that 20psi? The problem with that is your running a 16psi spring setup in your wastegate so it seems to me like your Tial is doing exactly what it supposed it.

If it were me I wouldn't run a vacuum line to the wastegate at all. I'd cap off the nipple where your sourcing the boost from your turbo and then go WOT and see how much boost I could build... It seems to me like this is a boost controller or a bov problem. WATCH THAT BOOST GAUGE BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO FAIL SAFE, THE ONLY THING CONTROLLING BOOST IS GOING TO BE YOUR FOOT ON THE THROTTLE.

 

[crazyquik22023]

First off, Tial doesn't make a 1.1 bar spring... There 1.1 bar setup is a combination of two springs (big yellow & a small red) just so everyone knows that reads this.
What you did to troubleshoot WHY you couldn't build more than 20psi makes no sense. You turned up your boost controller as high as it would go still only boosting 20psi, correct? So you removed it and ran the vacuum line from the turbo to the wastegate to control boost and see if you could build more that 20psi? The problem with that is your running a 16psi spring setup in your wastegate so it seems to me like your Tial is doing exactly what it supposed it.

If it were me I wouldn't run a vacuum line to the wastegate at all. I'd cap off the nipple where your sourcing the boost from your turbo and then go WOT and see how much boost I could build... It seems to me like this is a boost controller or a bov problem. WATCH THAT BOOST GAUGE BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO FAIL SAFE, THE ONLY THING CONTROLLING BOOST IS GOING TO BE YOUR FOOT ON THE THROTTLE.

ya your right i should have said spring(s). and your wrong on the colors its actually big blue and small yellow. and no what i did was a test to eliminate the boost controller as a problem. With the boost controller fully closed the car made 15-16psi. Then with the boost controller open it made 20 psi which is what it should do, then when i ran just the wastegate line to the compressor for a boost source and eliminated the boost controller, it made 15 psi. and also, how do i hear about ppl running 30+ psi of boost on 1 bar springs if my 1.1 bar spring will only make 16psi??? is a MBC really going to increase boost by 15psi???

 

[gofer]

ya your right i should have said spring(s). and your wrong on the colors its actually big blue and small yellow.

I stand corrected. http://www.tialmedia.com/documents/w3_tial_44_sp.pdf I was taking my info off of the wrong website, their spring info was incorrect.

and no what i did was a test to eliminate the boost controller as a problem. With the boost controller fully closed the car made 15-16psi.

This is what it should do with the MBC completely back off because your running a 16psi spring.

Then with the boost controller open it made 20 psi which is what it should do.

How is this what it should do? You've got the boost controller turned completely up and your only get 5lbs more boost over what your wg spring will hold. From that right there your boost controller is faulty or your wastegate is blowing open at 20psi.

then when i ran just the wastegate line to the compressor for a boost source and eliminated the boost controller, it made 15 psi.

Doing this didn't really test anything because when you did the 1st test, backing off all the way on the mbc, you held 15psi so you know your wg is holding that amount of boost.

To see whats causing you to only raise boost to only 20psi you need to pull the vacuum line off the wastegate completely and cap it off on the turbo compressor wheel. Go for a drive and MASH the gas watching your boost gauge, if it spools past 20psi you know that your wastegate isn't whats blowing open at 20psi. That means its time to go get a MBC...

and also, how do i hear about ppl running 30+ psi of boost on 1 bar springs if my 1.1 bar spring will only make 16psi??? is a MBC really going to increase boost by 15psi???

Yes. I run a 13psi spring in my Tial and I'm boosting 25psi and only have my boost controller twisted in about halfway.

My guess is your Tial wastegate is fine, its your mbc thats not letting you turn up the boost. That or your bov depending on which one you have, sometimes the spring inside of it will blow open at a certain psi as well.

 

[crazyquik22023]

I stand corrected. http://www.tialmedia.com/documents/w3_tial_44_sp.pdf I was taking my info off of the wrong website, their spring info was incorrect.


This is what it should do with the MBC completely back off because your running a 16psi spring.


How is this what it should do? You've got the boost controller turned completely up and your only get 5lbs more boost over what your wg spring will hold. From that right there your boost controller is faulty or your wastegate is blowing open at 20psi.

Doing this didn't really test anything because when you did the 1st test, backing off all the way on the mbc, you held 15psi so you know your wg is holding that amount of boost.

To see whats causing you to only raise boost to only 20psi you need to pull the vacuum line off the wastegate completely and cap it off on the turbo compressor wheel. Go for a drive and MASH the gas watching your boost gauge, if it spools past 20psi you know that your wastegate isn't whats blowing open at 20psi. That means its time to go get a MBC...


Yes. I run a 13psi spring in my Tial and I'm boosting 25psi and only have my boost controller twisted in about halfway.

My guess is your Tial wastegate is fine, its your mbc thats not letting you turn up the boost. That or your bov depending on which one you have, sometimes the spring inside of it will blow open at a certain psi as well.

wow i had no idea a MBC could add that much boost... Im going to order a new MBC right now from extreme psi.. do u have any suggestions on which one is a good boost controller.. price doesn't really matter... also i will do the test tom that u suggested and is it necessary to cap off the nipple on the compressor housing?? also i have a greddy type-s which i really don't think is leaking

 

[gofer]

wow i had no idea a MBC could add that much boost... Im going to order a new MBC right now from extreme psi.. do u have any suggestions on which one is a good boost controller.. price doesn't really matter... also i will do the test tom that u suggested and is it necessary to cap off the nipple on the compressor housing?? also i have a greddy type-s which i really don't think is leaking

Joe P, Hallman Pro, or Dejon Tools mbc... if you spend more than $80 then you just payed too much for something so simple, you can even make your own!

You MUST cap the nipple on the compressor housing if your going to test the wastegate, if you don't you'll have a major boost leak right there.

The Greddy Type-S bov has been known to leak after 20+psi because that spring in there can be weak, I wouldn't completely factor it out of the equation either. Don't waste money on a mbc that might not fix your problem, run the external wastegate with no pressure source and see if you spool past 20psi. If it still doesn't do a boost leak test up to 20psi and see if your bov is opening up.



WHEN YOU RUN THE WASTEGATE WITH NO PRESSURE SOURCE REMEMBER THERES NOTHING TO CONTROL HOW MUCH BOOST YOU RUN EXCEPT YOU... SO WATCH THE BOOST GAUGE!

 

[crazyquik22023]

Joe P, Hallman Pro, or Dejon Tools mbc... if you spend more than $80 then you just payed too much for something so simple, you can even make your own!

You MUST cap the nipple on the compressor housing if your going to test the wastegate, if you don't you'll have a major boost leak right there.

The Greddy Type-S bov has been known to leak after 20+psi because that spring in there can be weak, I wouldn't completely factor it out of the equation either. Don't waste money on a mbc that might not fix your problem, run the external wastegate with no pressure source and see if you spool past 20psi. If it still doesn't do a boost leak test up to 20psi and see if your bov is opening up.



WHEN YOU RUN THE WASTEGATE WITH NO PRESSURE SOURCE REMEMBER THERES NOTHING TO CONTROL HOW MUCH BOOST YOU RUN EXCEPT YOU... SO WATCH THE BOOST GAUGE!

ok thanks and ya i know to watch the gauge, i know the type-s has been known to leak after 20psi but i was running 23 psi with it on my old turbo with no problems and im not factoring it out im just saying i would bet its the MBC before the bov.... and i ordered a hallman pro im pretty sure my MBC is screwed anyway b/c it is old and pretty much falling apart.. thanks for the help

 

[gofer]

ok thanks and ya i know to watch the gauge, i know the type-s has been known to leak after 20psi but i was running 23 psi with it on my old turbo with no problems and im not factoring it out im just saying i would bet its the MBC before the bov.... and i ordered a hallman pro im pretty sure my MBC is screwed anyway b/c it is old and pretty much falling apart.. thanks for the help

Good choice, thats the mbc I run... you get it in anodized pink?!? Just playing. I enjoy helping so its no problem, sorry I posted up the wrong info on your spring btw apparently RRE doesn't update their TiAL wastegate spring colors like the TiAL website does.

Heres where I got the info for your 1.1bar spring setup... TiAL Products External Wastgates

According to them its a big yellow/small red thats used in a 1.1bar setup.

 

[TURBD]

Have you tried taking off your MBC and blowing in it? I can blow about 19psi.
Back it off so it's got no resistance, then blow threw it while tightening the screw till you can't blow threw it. Then put it back on. If you can't tighten it up enough that you can't blow threw it, it's toast. Or you could try stretching the spring. I would just buy a new one in this case.

 

[gofer]

Have you tried taking off your MBC and blowing in it? I can blow about 19psi.
Back it off so it's got no resistance, then blow threw it while tightening the screw till you can't blow threw it. Then put it back on. If you can't tighten it up enough that you can't blow threw it, it's toast. Or you could try stretching the spring. I would just buy a new one in this case.

My friend, unless the air up in Canada is different than it is down here in the states or your a porn star its not possible that you blow even close to 19psi.
It's a good read, especially the part that talks about Maximal Respiratory Muscle Effort --> Physiology of respiration - Google Books and if you do read it you'll realize that the average human can only blow 2.13psi.

 

[TURBD]

Ok you got me I may not hit 19, but I know for a fact I am more then 3psi. I can get about 3 turns on my MBC from when I start to feel resistance till I can't blow threw it.

 

[crazyquik22023]

Ok you got me I may not hit 19, but I know for a fact I am more then 3psi. I can get about 3 turns on my MBC from when I start to feel resistance till I can't blow threw it.

ya i have no words for what i am reading right now......

Good choice, thats the mbc I run... you get it in anodized pink?!? Just playing. I enjoy helping so its no problem, sorry I posted up the wrong info on your spring btw apparently RRE doesn't update their TiAL wastegate spring colors like the TiAL website does.

Heres where I got the info for your 1.1bar spring setup... TiAL Products External Wastgates

According to them its a big yellow/small red thats used in a 1.1bar setup.

ya no prob on the wrong info... some sites have misleading info on their sites but ya i actually order the purple one to match my wastegate but ill check back when i install it and hopefully ill be checking back boosting 30 psi.