big t28/18g/evo316g...?

[jdbl14]

so i have a 98 gs-t, with nkg plugs and wires, all new hoses/belts/pumps, ebay 3" SS down pipe and exhaust, 1g BOV, MBC , DIY intake pipe, vibrant filter and adapter and everything else is stock. as far as engine goes...

i was wondering about what turbo would be my best route, as i want to get up above 300 whp with minimal money spent.

i originally was looking at getting either a big 16g or the evo 3, but then i came upon the 18g, and i was like hmmm... i dunno what would be better.

then i was looking at FP.com and saw their big t28 and it seemed an even better choice.(direct bolt on and whatnot...)

so what i was wondering is with what i have now, which would be the "easiest" to use to obtain my goal of 300+whp?
and in order to get to the 300+ area would i need to get new injectors/fuel pump, and or anything else?

 

[Vicious_mole]

the big t-28 is a nice piece imo its drop in and go, but its kinda expensive i think you can get a 16g or 18g and get the install kit and still be cheaper, depending on the price of the 18g i dont think you would be disapointed buying it i love mine

heres use this will kinda let you know what you need
Tech Guide: 2G 4G63t Upgrades - DSMtuners

and happy dsming

 

[VTRICCO]

go with the big t28 from FP. i just dropped one in from them a month ago and love it. a 16g or 18g and install kit will run you about the same ast the big t28 and has just as much potential in my opinion..

 

[jdbl14]

i should add that i work at a machine shop, and i have access to everything i'll need to fab up oil/fuel lines, and any intercooler piping that i'll be using.

if i get a t28 everthing is direct bolt on, right?

so with stock internals, and what i have listed is 300+whp realistically acheviable with just a new turbo?

 

[El Cuervo]

FP18g would be your best bet for 300whp. All of these turbos will get you 300whp with the right tune but its easier with the fp18g. Besides there is a group buy going on for the fp18g right now. Take advantage of it. I would if I were you but I'm concentrating on the handlig part right now.

 

[VTRICCO]

the big t28 is a 100% direct drop in. nothing necessary except new gaskets . no new oil lines or piping

 

[jdbl14]

even with the group buy on the 18g it would still be around 900$ to get it installed, and the evo3's would be around 800$...

so for less $ and less hassle i could swap in a t28...

with an 18g would i have significantly better gains in power?

and just curious but what rpm do these turbos spool up? if i can get over 300whp with the t28 and keep a low amount of lag i think i'll just go with it...

unless the 18g is so much better that i can't pass it up...

 

[VTRICCO]

the t28 spools almost exactly the same as stock and holds peak boost till redline instead of dropping off after the stock t25

 

[pboglio]

even with the group buy on the 18g it would still be around 900$ to get it installed, and the evo3's would be around 800$...

so for less $ and less hassle i could swap in a t28...

with an 18g would i have significantly better gains in power?

and just curious but what rpm do these turbos spool up? if i can get over 300whp with the t28 and keep a low amount of lag i think i'll just go with it...

unless the 18g is so much better that i can't pass it up...

Not to argue with anyone, but a T28 does NOT spool the same as a T25, no way. Your looking at +400 rpm spool difference off the bat.

This is coming from a T28 owner. Just buy the EVOIII 16g. Everything you've just stated points to that turbo. Cost is similar installed, spoolup is the same, power is +50 h.p. greater with the EVOIII 16g, install difference is trivial.

Yes, you can pull 300 w.h.p. on the T28, even 350 w.h.p. on a very cold day and tons of boost. But you'll want more eventually and the EVOIII 16g can pull +400 w.h.p. without any cost or spool disadvantages compared to the T28.

Plus the headaches your gonna have trying to hold boost on a T28 just to make 300 w.h.p. Save yourself the grief.

 

[droppedlow]

i love my evo3 16g. i am running it at 17 lbs right now. All my gst wants to do is spin the tires i would just go with the evo3.

 

[jdbl14]

so with a t28 i would be struggling to make 300?

does the 18g spool a lot slower than the evo3?

 

[empie1]

No the 18g does not spool slower than the 16g.I couldnt tell.

 

[xdxoxuxgx]

If you're looking for an 18g, Forced Performance is running a group buy on theirs right now.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/ven...erformance-18gsl2-turbocharger-group-buy.html

Looks like a good buy to me, I have an Evo III 16g and it's quite impressive but the 18g has more power potential than the Evo III 16g while sacrificing some spool time and money.

 

[nfernotalon]

you need fuel first, tuning device, injectors, fuel pump. I would go with 650's the 190, and SAFC. Maybe a logger and wideband. There goes your turbo money.

 

[meliketoball]

I'd go with the t-28, port the stock manifold while its out and get the supporting fuel modzzz as well.

 

[hsk8te2006]

Be very careful... If you try to run an evo3 16g or an 18g without a tuning device or the supporting fuel mods, your tune will be off. You can run into boost creep problems with a different turbo, and some of them flow more air at the same boost level compared to the T25 (throws the tune off further). you can end up running lean wasily, and iF you run too lean, you can even blow your engine!

Trust me... play it safe with your beloved DSM and buy the supporting mods (After market high-rated fuel pump, AFPR, bigger injectors, logger, and a way to tune fuel delivery (dsmlink is best, but SAFC-II and a logger is ok)) before you waste money by buying a turbo you can't properly tune for yet.

Then, buy the turbo of your choice and have fun safely!

 

[CTP]

But you'll want more eventually and the EVOIII 16g can pull +400 w.h.p.

LAWL

I vote 18g. It's the most realistic for that power level even if it is a little more expensive.

 

[kenamond]

Be very careful... If you try to run an evo3 16g or an 18g without a tuning device or the supporting fuel mods, your tune will be off. You can run into boost creep problems with a different turbo, and some of them flow more air at the same boost level compared to the T25 (throws the tune off further). you can end up running lean wasily, and iF you run too lean, you can even blow your engine!

Trust me... play it safe with your beloved DSM and buy the supporting mods (After market high-rated fuel pump, AFPR, bigger injectors, logger, and a way to tune fuel delivery (dsmlink is best, but SAFC-II and a logger is ok)) before you waste money by buying a turbo you can't properly tune for yet.

Then, buy the turbo of your choice and have fun safely!

If you put in an evo3 turbo and can keep the boost low enough for your fuel system (i.e. don't have creep problems), your stock tune should be fine. But a logger is always a good thing to get early on when upgrading.

 

[jdbl14]

thanks kenamond and hsk8te2006, this is what i was figuring i needed. i am probably getting a logger within the next week or so. with the safc2, should i look on ebay or buy new? and as far as injectors and fuel pump go, should i get a 190 or a 255, 550cc or higher?

 

[turboblack2door]

255 with 720's and you'll be fine

 

[JusMX141]

i think you can get a 16g or 18g and get the install kit and still be cheaper

Why is everyone so hellbent on getting an install kit to replace a T25 with a TD05H turbo? It's basically a bolt-on turbo.

- The coolant lines will fit....you just need to be a little creative.
- The T25's oil drain flange will fit the TD05H turbo if you slot the holes slightly more toward center.
- The o2 housing and manifold flanges are identical.

What's left? A 1G j-pipe, which can be had for $20....and an oil supply line (either a 1G line to the head or a stainless braided line to the oil filter housing.) Somewhere along the line you'll need to add 8"-10" to your lower intercooler pipe as well; most guys do it using a piece of straight exhaust tubing from any auto parts store for a cost of around $4.

Regardless, you should be able to get a TD05H turbo on a 2G with less than $50 spent on installation accessories.


I vote EvoIII 16G (MHI ONLY) or an 18G.

 

[kenamond]

Why is everyone so hellbent on getting an install kit to replace a T25 with a TD05H turbo? It's basically a bolt-on turbo.

- The coolant lines will fit....you just need to be a little creative.
- The T25's oil drain flange will fit the TD05H turbo if you slot the holes slightly more toward center.
- The o2 housing and manifold flanges are identical.

What's left? A 1G j-pipe, which can be had for $20....and an oil supply line (either a 1G line to the head or a stainless braided line to the oil filter housing.) Somewhere along the line you'll need to add 8"-10" to your lower intercooler pipe as well; most guys do it using a piece of straight exhaust tubing from any auto parts store for a cost of around $4.

Regardless, you should be able to get a TD05H turbo on a 2G with less than $50 spent on installation accessories.


I vote EvoIII 16G (MHI ONLY) or an 18G.

All good points. The only reasons I can think of to go with an FP Big28 is visual inspection/sleeper or boost creep (in the evo3 case) if you plan on upgrading the exhaust before fuel. I don't know if the 18g has the creep problems the 14b and evo3b16g have. And if you plan on running below 20psi boost, creep may be an issue.

If you plan on upgrading exhaust before fuel, you might want to read up on creep solutions and plan ahead or switch your upgrade order (assuming you'll end up at a daily boost level that the turbo will tolerate).

 

[JusMX141]

Does the T28 come with an upgraded wastegate actuator that has a little more strength than the stocker on the T25? I know the T25 actuator has a VERY long throw (which is most likely why boost creep is never a problem) but whenever I use them on other turbos they tend to allow the flapper to blow open unless I make the actuator arm adjustable.

 

[kenamond]

Does the T28 come with an upgraded wastegate actuator that has a little more strength than the stocker on the T25? I know the T25 actuator has a VERY long throw (which is most likely why boost creep is never a problem) but whenever I use them on other turbos they tend to allow the flapper to blow open unless I make the actuator arm adjustable.

I'm not sure. I'm still shackled by a stock exhaust, and I'm only running 15psi, so I can't tell if the WG is holding while I'm still building boost. The WGAs look the same, but I didn't tear my WGAs apart to compare the internals . I never took note of the WG levers, either, so maybe the arm connects farther from the pivot on the 28 than the 25 (reduce throw, increase backpressure resistance).

If I ever get a frikkin' 3" exhaust put together, I'll find out if the turbo spools fast enough for my taste (exhaust pressure gets multiplied back through the turbine, so stock exhaust pressure is jacking up my pre-turbo backpressure and possibly causing the WG to leak prematurely).

 

[JusMX141]

I was just wondering because the last time I converted a Frank 5 20G (60trim compressor, TD06H turbine) back to a internal gate for a customer I used an actuator from a T25 because I had a surplus. It fit perfectly, but it wouldn't boost past 17psi until I shortened the actuator rod.

You could probably tell if your T28 has an upgraded actuator or not by looking at the arm. I believe all of the stronger actuators sold for T2-series turbos are adjustable:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.