Best Combination of Gears for AWD transmission

[jawar666]

So I have a problem with my AWD transmission, my reverse keeps popping out... So I took the whole transmission down and took it apart to check it out...

And also I have a pair of bare transmissions at home, one it's from a Talon AWD, and the other one is an Evo III tranmission, both of them have the center differential destroyed...

I was thinking on building the best transmission possible out of the three transmissions....

My goal is to have a 400 awhp (450 maximum) and I would use the car for road racing and for a daily drive...

Also I have a dual-diaphragm Daikin Pressure Plate, but I'm still not sure about the clutch disc to use, reading different forum threads I was intended to buy a new Kevlar segmented disc, but some people have suggested me to use the OEM organic disc...


I saw one recipe on jack's website, with the Evo 11% 1st gear taller, but I think that one will work great for drag racing, and I'm not interested that much in drag racing for now...

Any suggestions comments will be welcome...

So I have 3 questions out of this:

1- Is there any good recipe for a road racing/daily driver awd transmission????
2- Would it be a good idea to convert my center diff to a 4 spider one?
3- Would it be a good idea using the front LSD out from the Evo transmission in the setup I want to run in road racing?

Thanks,

 

[twicks69]

The Evo 3 transmission had the option of an open front differential or a clutch-type differential. If the clutch-type front diff is still in good condition, I would strongly recommend using it with your DSM front diff ring gear and matching pinion output shaft and bearings/races.

As for the center diff, the cases are the same, so if either case is still salvagable without damage to the case gear or the insides, then they should be viable choices for machinework to do a 4-spider center differential. I am assuming that the upper pinion drive gear and the center diff cover are destroyed from the oiling washer failing, resulting in it welding itself to the pinion gear. Either way, if you are going to do a 4-spider, be sure to get an upgraded cross-shaft, not some cheap, machined-down one. I make a hardened billet chromoly steel cross-shaft with oiling grooves that is way stronger than the stock machined-down ones and it won't shatter under high power levels. Put the center diff together with a new pinion gearset, a new cover machined for a Torrington bearing along with new spider gear shims and pinion gear oiling shims and you should have a very strong center differential to work with.

As for the Evo 3 parts, it uses a tall 1st gear which is actually nice for road-race/drag/street use and it uses a close-ratio 3rd/4th gearset that is good for road-race/high-RPM drag use above 9000rpm. The input shaft and 1st gear are also shot-peened from the factory whereas the DSM gearset has nothing shot-peened from the factory. The Evo 3 transmission should also have steel shift forks for all three hub and slider assemblies, along with a heavier-duty 3rd/4th hub and slider that has more oiling space to lubricate the 4th gear double synchro. The Evo 3 transmission will also have double-synchro 3rd and 4th gears. As well, the Evo 3 transmission has a taller 5th gear which is pretty nice to have.

So, with those details in mind, I would use as many of the Evo 3 components as possible. The input shaft/1st gear, either DSM or Evo 3 2nd gear (they are the same overall), Evo 3 3rd/4th gearset, Evo 3 3rd/4th hub and slider assembly, Evo 3 5th gearset, Evo 3 front LSD differential with DSM ring gear and DSM pinion output shaft/bearings/races, Evo 3 shift forks and shift rails. The viscous couplers are the same, the center diff is the same, the intermediate shaft is the same, and the reverse idler gear and linkage should be the same. Check the reverse lever part number to confirm that it is the same, otherwise use the Evo 3 reverse lever and idler gear/key if you use the Evo 3 1st gear assembly and input shaft.

Any other questions?

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

And where would one source a jdm evo 3 trans?

 

[twicks69]

Do some searching. In his circumstance, he is in Costa Rica so there are a bit of options even though the DSM and Evo 1/2/3 are rare there.

Check out Tiger Japanese Importers, or do a search for other JDM automotive parts importers -- Tiger Japanese - Home

 

[hurricanecris24]

You couldn't just buy evo3 internals and put them in a 2g tranny?

 

[twicks69]

You can purchase most Evo 3 gears, but the parts like the old version Evo 3 shift rails for 1/2 and 5/R are not available, along with the old version steel forks and the LSD front differential.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

When they say jdm eclipse 7 bolt, what are they referring to? What is that trans out of?

 

[jawar666]

@twicks69, wow!!! That answer was way more than I expected... Thanks a lot...

Now, with that info... I have a couple of questions more...

Isn't it better then, to use the evo III transmission and just put the DSM front diff gear and pinion only on it? Couldn't it be easier to do so? Would that require some machining?

And also I forgot to ask, what clutch disk would be better to use with the Dual-Diaphragm Pressure Plate and according to my power goals? the OEM organic dsk or a Kevlar segmented one?


@VETTE_50_TH, I'm Costa Rica, Central America, and lately there are a lot of people importing JDM cars, so you can see lately a bunch of people driving Impreza, Skyline and JDM Evo's...
The two bare transmissions I have in my garage were removed from an Evo 2 used for drag race, but his owner hasn't been nice to it, both trannys were destroyed while racing and right after a 100hp NOS shot during the race...

I'm actually thinking on importing the 4 spider center differential here to re-sell it for Evo Owners...

 

[kthackst]

When they say jdm eclipse 7 bolt, what are they referring to? What is that trans out of?

JDM AWD eclipse 7 bolt transmissions are out of the Mitsubishi RVR with the 4G63. The RVR trans only work with 97-99 tcase. The trans code is MMZL.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Ah thanks. Which still needs the swapped parts from the 2g awd. The rvr had the taller rear diff. Has anyone ever swapped the complete drivtrain from an evo3 or rvr?

NM: The rvr has the ratios with a longer final drive.

 

[twicks69]

@twicks69, wow!!! That answer was way more than I expected... Thanks a lot...

Now, with that info... I have a couple of questions more...

Isn't it better then, to use the evo III transmission and just put the DSM front diff gear and pinion only on it? Couldn't it be easier to do so? Would that require some machining?

And also I forgot to ask, what clutch disk would be better to use with the Dual-Diaphragm Pressure Plate and according to my power goals? the OEM organic dsk or a Kevlar segmented one?
I'm actually thinking on importing the 4 spider center differential here to re-sell it for Evo Owners...

To further answer your questions, yes, you can simply disassemble the DSM transmission and the Evo 3 transmission and swap the front diff ring gear and pinion output shaft/bearings/races and use the Evo 3 transmission. One important thing to inspect would be the shift cable linkage on the transmission. If the transmission shift selector arm is different, you will need to swap it for the DSM unit.

As for the clutch, do you have a picture you can post up of the pressure plate you are intending on using? Could you measure a diameter of it also? We would be interested in seeing its outer friction surface diameter to confirm the clutch disk required diameter for the friction surface. It should be a standard sized disk for a turbo AWD DSM or Evo 1/2/3, but just wanted to confirm. If you could take pictures of the front and back of the pressure plate so we can see what clutch disk hub will also work with it. I normally have South Bend Clutch use two different hubs based upon power levels and clutch pressure plate dimensions for clearance and durability. One version is a large-diameter 4-spring hub, and the other one is a heavier-duty 6-spring hub. Here is a picture of what I am talking about for reference:

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

As for the center differential 4-spider units, I do sell the cross-shafts seperately if you are capable of doing the 4-spider machinework yourself and know all the dimensions already. Otherwise, I sell them as a service, or as a complete brand-new unit utilizing a new case, new gearset, new cover, and the heavy-duty cross-shaft.

Further information regarding the center diff stuff can be found on my website. International shipping would also be extra.
TMZ Performance

There are plenty of pictures of the cross-shaft and the 4-spider units on the website.

 

[kthackst]

Ah thanks. Which still needs the swapped parts from the 2g awd. The rvr had the taller rear diff. Has anyone ever swapped the complete drivtrain from an evo3 or rvr?

NM: The rvr has the ratios with a longer final drive.

Where did you find this information? I only found a post on some NZ website where some guy verified the rear diff on a rvr is 3.545 like our eclipses. I am currently running a rvr trans and tcase on my 2g.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

I found it on a site that said the final drive was 5.4 something.

Where did you find this information? I only found a post on some NZ website where some guy verified the rear diff on a rvr is 3.545 like our eclipses. I am currently running a rvr trans and tcase on my 2g.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

 

[kthackst]

I found it on a site that said the final drive was 5.4 something.

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

Can you provide a link? 5.4 is really high. I dont think my car would move if it is that high.

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Found it. MITSUBISHI RVR, SPORTS GEAR V20 catalog - reviews, pics, specs and prices | Goo-net Exchange

Final drive is different than ours.

 

[kthackst]

Ah ok that's just final drive of the transmission not the actual rear diff gearing. I was confused.

I did both the jacks transmission 2g identification process on the RVR trans and tcase. Both came up as 2gb trans and tcase.

Acording to that link I have a evoIII gear set!

 

[VETTE_50_TH]

Ah ok that's just final drive of the transmission not the actual rear diff gearing. I was confused.

I did both the jacks transmission 2g identification process on the RVR trans and tcase. Both came up as 2gb trans and tcase.

Acording to that link I have a evoIII gear set!

How do you know? Easy way is to find your speed in each gear and figure out the ratios. RVR trannies have the same gearing as ours

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk

 

[jawar666]

@twicks69... When you say the intermediate shaft is the same in both, Evo and DSM trannys... are you also taking about the 3rd and 4th gears that are attached to the intermediate shaft??? Are they the same?...

I just removed the bell from the Evo tranny and the 3rd gear in the input shaft, 3rd gear attached to the intermediate shaft and the gear attached to the bottom to the center diff are destroy....

So I was wondering if I can buy a new Evo 3rd gear and use my DSM intermediate shaft to make it work...

As for the pictures of the Pressure Plate, I'll take some probably tonight or tomorrow and post them as soon as I can... This Pressure Plate was already in the car when I bought it, and it came along with a OEM organic disc, it says Daikin in the back of the friction surface, color red, and I have tried to find some info about it using the part number written on it, but I haven't found any so far... I'm not sure how much pressure it has, but the pedal feel is like a ACT 2600 I would say...

 

[jawar666]

Twicks69...

Here are the pictures of the Pressure Plate

Front

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

You can see the dual diaphgragm here

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Mitsubishi Logo and a number (I guess the part number)

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

The DK (Daikin) Logo

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

Friction surface

You must be logged in to view this image or video.

As I told you, this one was already in the car when I bought it along with a OEM organic disc... So:

- what clutch disc can I use with this PP and a 450 awhp goal?


- And also, are the intermediate Shaft from the DSM and the Evo the same?

Thanks,