Bastard 20g VS Sleeper 16g

[TurboDSMer]

What is the difference between the two besides $50. I mean the bastard fully loaded with full porting and the td06h wheel. Are they the same exact thing or are they a little different?

 

[unior]

well it looks like you already answered your question

td06 turbine wheel is larger - meaning more top end and slower spool

i still have no idea what the bastard is - i just heard from you it has a td06 turbine wheel whereas i know the sleeper20g has a tdo5 turbine wheel

 

[TurboDSMer]

The bastard is form slowboy, and the sleeper is from forced performance. There is no way that the sleeper uses a td05h wheel and make 400whp and run a 11.47 on a GVR4, it just doesn't add up. It has to use the TD06h like the SBR does. And it is TD06H not TD06 there is a difference.

I mean if you look at the FPBig28 it is better than just a regualr T28 or killer28 so i was thinking mayeb the same thing.

 

[Steve93Talon]

FP doesn't disclose the wheel specs on the sleeper16, but it's pretty common knowledge that it's a TD06H-20g. The only thing I can think of that would be different is the thrust bearing. FP claims to have a proprietary 360 degree design. I e-mailed Slowboy about it awhile ago and they claim that all EVO3-16G, 18G, and 20G's use the upgraded bearing now. The bottom line is decide which vendor you feel comfortable with and you should be fine.

 

[dsmrunaway1]

There is no way that the sleeper uses a td05h wheel and make 400whp and run a 11.47 on a GVR4, it just doesn't add up..............how could u say that when sbr made 400.7 whp on the evo3 16g...doesn't the sleeper 16g have the 20g compressor wheel in it...? so what would stop that thing from making 400+whp....

 

[swordfish]

A FP sleeper 16G will make 400whp. Last year we made 369whp on pump gas at only 20psi on the red car with a sleeper. Stock cams and intake and AFC.

jeff

 

[Steve93Talon]

...doesn't the sleeper 16g have the 20g compressor wheel in it...? so what would stop that thing from making 400+whp....

Err... stuffing such a big wheel into a TD05H compressor housing?

 

[dsmrunaway1]

hence the name sleeper 16g...it looks like a 16g but has more then the eye can see.....but is a great turbo...

 

[unior]

well bushur has sold td05h 20gs for years

my buddy Dave "tort" 20g runs 11.0s on a td05h 20g

search dsmtimes.org for "tort"

 

[blcknspo0ln]

OT- the sleeper 16G is $1180

for that price i'd up and get an FP3052

 

[TurboDSMer]

Swordfish would you recommend the Sleeper? Also i found out it doesn't use a td06h, but they won't tell what it is.

Also SBR made 400whp on an EVO16g on a 2.3 stroker motor with a fully ported and polished head, 272's, and tuned to the limit. So on a 2.3L motor the EVO can make 400whp, not a 2.0L.

 

[TurboDSMer]

A FP sleeper 16G will make 400whp. Last year we made 369whp on pump gas at only 20psi on the red car with a sleeper. Stock cams and intake and AFC.

jeff

Was that on a 2L or a 2.3L? Also was that in FWD or AWD?

 

[Steve93Talon]

Unior, the "TD05H" on Tort's turbo refers to the turbine wheel, whereas it refers to the compressor housing on a sleeper version. Tort has the TD06 compressor cover.

As for getting a 3052, here's what it'd cost:

Sleeper16: $1170

FP3052: $1299+
-custom 02 $250
- dump $60
- oil feed $65
- oil return $55
- 4" inlet pipe $69
- 44mm V-band wastegate $369

Total: Roughly $2160, not counting the supporting mods needed

It's far from apples to apples, anyone looking at the sleeper models isn't looking for most bang for the buck, they're looking for most bang from a stock appearing engine bay

 

[peregrine]

or $800 for a pte 50 trim etc. screw the sleeper look for that much dough. if i want a sleeper ill buy a 16g with a hidden 75-100 shot for less than that.

 

[Coup D E'Tat]

Swordfish would you recommend the Sleeper? Also i found out it doesn't use a td06h, but they won't tell what it is.

Also SBR made 400whp on an EVO16g on a 2.3 stroker motor with a fully ported and polished head, 272's, and tuned to the limit. So on a 2.3L motor the EVO can make 400whp, not a 2.0L.

Displacement is irrelevant to what a turbo can put down.

 

[16g-95gsx]

Displacement is irrelevant to what a turbo can put down.

Thank you, you beat me to it by one post. A turbo has a max flow rate, regardless of displacement. If it made it on a 2.3L, it can make it on a 2.0L, it just wont spool as nicely. Turbo's can only flow but so much air, use them to their max, and it doesnt matter what motor you run, you will still make the same power. The benefit to a 2.3L would be the spool, and this is why people generally will upgrade their turbos to better reflect the gains they made by spool vs peak airflow.

 

[foreverinvayne]

but doesn't displacement directly effect power? as in if there is more displacement in the engine it can let more air and fuel in, which will .... grrr... now you got me confused.

 

[1990greenGSX]

but doesn't displacement directly effect power? as in if there is more displacement in the engine it can let more air and fuel in, which will .... grrr... now you got me confused.

No,.. Displacement wont change a Turbos power output. It only effects spool time. Yes we made over 400whp on a 2.3 motor at 19-20 psi.. Now.. the Bastarg 20g is a TDO5 turbine wheel and a 20g compressor wheel in a 16g comp cover.. No if you upgrade to the TDO6H turbine, no its larger with the same comp cover. You can get 20g wheels to fit in the 16g covers. I think there are even other threads about this turbo on here..

If i didnt clear that up enough let me know..

** I cant comment on the FP sleeper.. I can only assume it is the same from what i have seen of them (being a TDO5 turbine w/ a 20g comp wheel) but can not be 100% sure)

Mark
SBR

 

[Revolution]

I appologize in advance and dont mean to highjack this thread but Mark at what rpm did you hit full boost with that evo3 2.3L test?

And lastly how high did you rev it?

 

[talon514]

turbodsmer
maybe u should consider the V trim....

 

[unior]

Unior, the "TD05H" on Tort's turbo refers to the turbine wheel, whereas it refers to the compressor housing on a sleeper version. Tort has the TD06 compressor cover.

well it looks like you already answered your question

td06 turbine wheel is larger - meaning more top end and slower spool

read my previous posts again....i was talking about the turbine wheel the entire time

looks like the guy at SBR cleared things up however! geesh

 

[1990greenGSX]

I appologize in advance and dont mean to highjack this thread but Mark at what rpm did you hit full boost with that evo3 2.3L test?

And lastly how high did you rev it?

full boost before 3k, rev to 6500 rpms but the power was falling off at that point due to stock intake manifold..

Mark
SBR

 

[Revolution]

Thank you so very much for that little tid bit of info, but would it be safe to say that with a more aggresive intake manifold like a magnus per say that the power numbers would have inceased or pro-longed through the power band?


Asto not highjack this thread here goes http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167625





Thank you

Rev hard,,,,, rev fast ,,,,,,,,rev right to the sweet spot.

 

[Brandon92DSM]

Unior, the "TD05H" on Tort's turbo refers to the turbine wheel, whereas it refers to the compressor housing on a sleeper version. Tort has the TD06 compressor cover.

As for getting a 3052, here's what it'd cost:

Sleeper16: $1170

FP3052: $1299+
-custom 02 $250
- dump $60
- oil feed $65
- oil return $55
- 4" inlet pipe $69
- 44mm V-band wastegate $369

Total: Roughly $2160, not counting the supporting mods needed

It's far from apples to apples, anyone looking at the sleeper models isn't looking for most bang for the buck, they're looking for most bang from a stock appearing engine bay

Agreed: the price of the FP Sleeper16G may seem a little outrageous at first glance, considering you can get into an EVO3 16G for less than $600 (if you shop around).

However, a properly set up Mitsu/Garrett hybrid or FP30 series turbo could easily end up being twice the cost of the FP Sleeper16G...easily well over 2 grand like quoted above, far far out of many guy's budgets.

Soo, if the FP Sleeper16G really does perform as advertised, I'd consider it a good option that fell squarely in between the cheap garden variety 16G's and the big-dollar full-custom setups, both in terms of price and horsepower potential.

EVO 3 16G = ~$600 / 300-350 whp
FP Sleeper16G = ~$1200 / 350-400 whp
Mitsu/Garrett/FP30 = ~$2000+ / 450+ whp

 

[GPTourer]

Thank you, you beat me to it by one post. A turbo has a max flow rate, regardless of displacement. If it made it on a 2.3L, it can make it on a 2.0L, it just wont spool as nicely.

Yeah, but wouldn't more displacement also mean more power under the curve if the turbo spools faster, thereby making the car faster? Does it not also increase the peak power potential of pump gas?

also, how does a BR20G fit into this? It is a similar hybrid right?