Bad oil leak- brand new 420a

[RomeoV]

Hey guys,

Yep, it's me again. The guy with the 96 GS with a brand new engine who couldn't get it synced to the tranny

Well, as you may or may not have seen, that issue was resolved, and is working properly. The rest of the engine went back together fine by my mechanic (remember, I freely admit I'm not much of a mechanic, but damn am I learning fast)

First official startup and after a few seconds of cranking the engine fires to life! I'm so excited at this point.. it revs well, idles great, trans is working properly, and then I see it.

After a few revs to set the rings (seals? whatever gets set when you first run the engine.. nothing too hard or abnormal) I notice the growing puddle of oil under the car.

Ugh.

After checking everything, (making sure all bolts are torqued down etc..) and washing the engine off a few times, we verify that oil is leaking quite badly from the rear passenger side corner of the engine, right between the head and the block. bad enough that you don't want to keep it running for more than a few minutes without refilling. It's not a spray of oil, but more a constant stream, and definitely not a slow drip. All from the same spot right on the back corner.

My mechanic sadly tells me since it's not leaking from any sensors, or anywhere near the oil pump,/rear main seal, etc.. (which would suck) that his best guess is someone either put the headgasket on improperly, or (get this) upside down.

Remember this engine was built by Slowboy, and then sent to another engine building company in Michigan (probably to add the head, etc..), and then to me in Ohio secondhand (and at a great deal) So I can't really go over to the shop that built it and start pushing people around.. they have no idea who I am.

I'm pretty devastated at this point as my mechanic then quoted me about a grand to pull the engine and check the headgasket, which seems pretty standard if you can't do it yourself. Even if I can find it cheaper I'm dead broke from spending all the money on the engine and swap thusfar and the damn thing is running great!

Just unusable...

So I figured I would come back and ask for some advice.

1. I was so hoping this might be the shallow thead bolt well issue that affects 420as (especially milled 420a's which mine has been). but everything I read says it only affects the opposite rear corner (drivers side) ugh. Am I wrong?

2. Is there anything else in the rear back passenger corner that could possibly be leaking?

3. The head and block do not seem to be cracked or warped in any way

4. It seems you don't have to actually pull the entire engine to repair a headgasket, is this true?

I just don't get how shops that build motors ALL day could do something as dumb as put the damn headgasket on upside down.. I don't get it.. I feel like it has to be something else. Plus, wouldn't the thing be leaking everywhere?

I will have some help. Two local DSM guys who know a crapload more than me are going to come take a look, but I'd really love to get a lead on some info for them here first, thanks guys

 

[NeMiZiS]

You don't have to pull the engine to do a head gasket.

 

[RomeoV]

Awesome, that's what I thought. Ok there's one piece of info out of the way, but are there any guesses as to if that's most likely the problem? I'm really hoping it's something else.

I've searched everywhere, but just found this for the first time in the 420a faq:

"95 Neon SOHC bare blocks have vents hole cut into a shelf on the side of the block, these will need to be plugged for any 2gnt use."

I have no idea what block they used for the build.. is this at all a possibilty? Or am I a total n00b?

.. I probably just answered my own question

 

[NeMiZiS]

I haven't heard of that before, but it definitely sounds like something I'd look into.
I'm not just going to guess at where it is leaking from.
But you can buy oil dye and run it with that, to see if it helps you locate the exact leak.
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=oil+dye&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&cid=12830267272930438423&ei=5WURTJv-EZCuiATAqPCwAg&sa=title&ved=0CAcQ8wIwADgA#p

 

[RomeoV]

SOLVED!

"740 Turbo Brick" here on DSMTuners came over yesterday and really knows what he is doing. After pulling the valve cover and diagnosing the leak. He noticed that the Cam seals were pushed all the way out of the engine, and not even remotely on the little retainer things that they are supposed to be. He used a screwdriver to slowly work them back on and after a putting it all back together, no more oil leak!!

As you may have guessed, the oil was shooting out around the cam gears and coming out right around the rear back corner, making it seem as though it was coming from the head gasket. After running it for 20 minutes and taking it out for it's first drive, there was still no leaking afterward. Sucess! Thanks for the help guys.

The first drive itself was horrible though.. oh well, one step at a time, I'll start some new threads.

 

[bullettdsm]

SOLVED!

"740 Turbo Brick" here on DSMTuners came over yesterday and really knows what he is doing.

I figured once Colby got there we would figure out what was really happening. Good job Colby (OP, I hope you gave him some boner points for that one).

OP, this should tell you a little something about the competency of the mechanic you are bringing your car to. Nothing against Colby, but he is a DSM enthusiast. He is not a mechanic. And yet he was able to diagnose an oil leak better than your "mechanic" (not to mention your previous problems with the tranny). Oil leak diagnosis is not car specific. How to diagnose an oil leak is pretty much universal among all cars. To misdiagnose a sizable leak like that .......not good.

Kudos to 740 Turbo Brick and congrats to you.......but find yourself a different mechanic (or learn to do it yourself).

MB

 

[gst fat]

Not bad you have to be careful, when I built my head by mistake I put the cam seals on backwards and realized it before we cranked the motor, anyways have gun with the car!

 

[96_killer]

"740 Turbo Brick" here on DSMTuners came over yesterday and really knows what he is doing. After pulling the valve cover and diagnosing the leak. He noticed that the Cam seals were pushed all the way out of the engine, and not even remotely on the little retainer things that they are supposed to be. He used a screwdriver to slowly work them back on and after a putting it all back together, no more oil leak!!

The same thing happed to me when i was at work. the one seal slip off when i was about to leave! good thing my friend was leaving too and saw the oil coming from under my car i had to tow my car home, but it was not hard to fix. just that dam timing cover

 

[Boosted_talon98]

The same thing happed to me when i was at work. the one seal slip off when i was about to leave! good thing my friend was leaving too and saw the oil coming from under my car i had to tow my car home, but it was not hard to fix. just that dam timing cover

Been there to.. My very first rebuild I was letting my car idle and I had royal purple first start oil in her and purple oil starting flying out all over my cam gears and it was the cam seals

 

[RomeoV]

Thanks guys, yeah Colby is awesome

I agree with the mechanic statement but believe it was more apathy at this point than anything. My mechanic is very highly regarded around town, and I've seen him do great work. Build engines and sends them all over the country. The problem is 1. He rarely works on DSM's and I am learning how big of a deal that is) and 2. by the time we go to the leak, he had lost so much money on the original swap, the second motor pull again for the tranny, the tranny repair, loading it all back in and hooking it all up to find this new, huge issue? I honestly think he just threw his hands up and called to give me what he thought might be the issue, but had no intention of actually putting any time into it to figure it out.

But yes, you are right, and from now on I'm learning as much as I can on my own and hopefully can bribe Colby with my old engine to come help! (with the stuff he can handle)

 

[shift2drift38]

Well I have a similar oil leak, steady stream, but when I was under the car to see where it was coming from, it looked like a slight "spray" or "burst" on the under side of the intake manifold, basically like something "blew and shot that way" and from there down was SOAKED in oil, axle, filter, oil sending unit the filter goes on, the pan, and while driving (before I noticed it..) was of course leaking all down my downpipe and along the frame of the car.... I lost about 2.5 to 3quarts in a 8mile hurry home drive because i saw how quickly i was losing oil when i pulled over, thankfully no ticks, knocking or Oil light came on, but i haven't started it since. Just curious if the cam seals could "blow" or something like that to cause this. I have never leaked any fluid on my eclipse, I do the best I can to keep it clean running and this just came out of nowhere.

It is 100% between the head and block area on the back of the motor somewhere. I know it's not the rear main seal, filter or sending unit, or pump (leak is more towards the driver side / middle-ish of the block). My timing belt area (the belt itself and inside it that is..).

Is there an oil line or something that runs up or near there? I've been told headgasket as well, but I have no water in the oil from what I can tell... and zero power loss or hesitation... nor overheating... i mean I dunno if it would overheat while driving NOW because I refuse to drive it, but if a headgasket were to blow like THAT i would assume naturally the car would not have driven like it has for the past 4years without hesitation...

Sorry for the long post just trying to describe all of it 110%!

Thanks for any input!

 

[bullettdsm]

While suspicion of headgasket would be appropriate for the area you're describing, I would say that is unlikely. Generally there would be no reason for a headgasket to just, all of the sudden, spring an oil leak like you describe. Headgasket oil leaks are normally a seepage style leak. In order for it to get that bad, it would have had to of been noticeable as a leak earlier. In addition, that kind of HG leak would certainly affect performance.

If you are sure that it is below the intake and isolated to the back side, I would suspect that the oil is spraying from somewhere a little lower and toward your intake. The oil pressure switch area is a pretty big culprit. Possibly the switch itself on the back side gave out. You also have the crank sensor on the back side (though that would have a hard time shooting up there). Do you have a sandwich adapter or anything on there? That could shoot up toward the intake. there is no cam seal on that side. But I believe (from looking at the block in my head) there may be a small block-off fitting on the back side of the block.

MB

 

[shift2drift38]

Your right about the Crank Sensor as the oil came from above it as well, it's on nice and tight still. I was really hoping and thought it would be something to do with an oil switch. I'm not sure about a block off fitting as it's really hard to see up there, reach around and all that, not to mention the oil covering most of everything. I'll be under it soon, and hope to post some pics if possible.

 

[shift2drift38]

Alright, sorry to the late reply but it comes with great news. Bullet you nailed it. I'm stoked that it was something minor, (well sorta..) and I noticed the leak when and how I did. When I did my oil change I only had about 1 1/2 quart left.. Anyways, just glad it wasnt a head gasket and thanks a ton for your "wiseman ranked" knowledge . All of you guys are awesome! Have a good one!