AWD spyder question

[TSi Kid]

I know you can use a NT spyder for the conversion, but if I opt this route, do I have to use new harnesses as well? And would it be easier just to get a gst spyder and use that instead?

 

[daren_p]

Yes, you would have to go through all the steps to convert a NT to turbo setup, then do the awd swap. Sure it can be done, but its alot less work to start off with a gst spyder.

 

[97gst_spyder]

If you get a complete GSX swap shell, it would not be that bad. If you piece it all together it would be a nightmare.

 

[TSi Kid]

I forgot about that, if I got the entire gsx shell I could just swap the harnesses. I guess it's what I have available to me at the time.

Thanks guys!

 

[tkrPerformance]

my spyder started out life as a n/a when I bought it new. All you really need is a ecu and engine harness to swap it to a turbo. If you are looking to go awd. just use all the parts from the parts car

 

[TSi Kid]

since I plan on pulling the wire harnesses anyways to de-pin what's not needed, I think it would be cheaper/easier to buy a NT and a awd shell instead of getting a gst with the awd components.
right?

 

[97gst_spyder]

I dont fully understand the question.

 

[TSi Kid]

If my two choices were to purchase a 2g gst spyder and the awd components from a donor car or to purchase a 2g NA spyder and a 2g gsx shell; which would be cheaper/less difficult?

 

[WES_393]

From what I've seen between my NA Spyder and TSi is there are very minimal diferences between the wiring harness. IMO it would be much easier to add the knock sensor, redo CAS wires, etc rather than swap the entire engine harness.

The cheaper route would be NA Spyder and AWD shell sine NA Spyder's are cheap. The easier route would be GST and AWD components since you don't have to DOHC and turbo swap the engine. However, the NA Spyders are appealing because of the 4g64 which is great for street driven DSM's due to more torque and quicker spools.

 

[TSi Kid]

the NA Spyders are appealing because of the 4g64 which is great for street driven DSM's due to more torque and quicker spools.

Yeah i'm still deciding between a 2.4LR, a 2.0 high rev, or a destroked 2.1. We'll see.

 

[turboglenn]

now unless there's something i'm missing/foprgetting that's different between an NA spider and a normal NA 2g car, don't forget the NA cars have the engine in backwards compared to a turbo car, so you'd have to remove the engine mounts in the body from both the spider and the donor car, then weld them in correctly and change everything else that's different for the NA engine and trans.. swapping turbo FWD to AWD is easy, turbocharging an NA car is easy. putting a turbo engine/trans into a 2g car that came as an N/A car and then converting that to AWD is a nightmare on ELm street that Fred krueger would have an excuse to miss out on

If i'm wrong and there's actually a normal turbo setup egnine/trans orientation please ginore and fogive me here

turbo'ing the 2.4 liter engine can make a great FWD platform with a lot of power though, hell we've got a guy on here running 10.98 on a FWD with hoosier QTP tires, and using a holset hx-35 on a 2.;0 liter 4g63.

Build that 2.4 engine and setup the suspension and tires for a launch and you're gonna be insanely fast (plus a high power FWD is scary but in a fun way to drive, when i swapped to AWD the third gear pulls that use to have me praying that we stayed on the road and lived are now just boring full throtttle, stright line pulls where i can turnthe radio on if i want... on FWD and 430+ hp even with a built trans and quafe LSD the ride was so intense you didn't dare take a hand off thewheel or eye off the road and most times i had to put teh car dead center of two lanes in order to have enough room for whne i was loosing traction at 90mph with both front tires and sliding one way and another.

Point being you can have a lot of funbuilding what you have, but converting it to AWD starting with a 2g NA is gonna be anything but fun and probably end up in a thread titled "2g na to AWD turbo part out"

 

[pauleyman]

don't forget the NA cars have the engine in backwards compared to a turbo car, so you'd have to remove the engine mounts in the body from both the spider and the donor car, then weld them in correctly and change everything else that's different for the NA engine and trans

This is not true with the spyder. The spyder is the only 2g NT that did not come with the 420a. It comes with a 4g64 mitsu motor and it's mounted just like the 4g63 turbo.

 

[eclipsh]

turboglenn, The N/A Spyders came with a SOHC 4G64 which is oriented the same as the 4G63 so an engine swap is very straight forward.

If you get a good harness out of a donor buying the N/A Spyder will give you a nice 2.4 block to build up and a cheaper car. That's all sorts of win in my book.

Having built my own engine harness for converting from a 64 to a 63 then a 64 DOHC turbo I can tell you it isn't a lot of fun. I went the hard way and swapped in a 1g ECU (I was on the cusp of OBD1/OBDII and had OBD1.5). Given that the Spyder is OBDII it'd be less work to build your harness but there really is no reason to do it if you have the GST/X harness. Every time you open up your wiring and change it you introduce the potential for problems like shorting or broken wires or just generally ####ing things up by taking out something you didn't know would do what it did. I'll likely be going back through my harness this summer to clean it up and check for problems.

Also, which engine you build really depends on what you're doing with the car. If it is going to be a DD that occasionally sees the drag strip or the race track the 2.4 is awesome. The improved low end is great to have for scooting around town and a quick trip up a winding side road. It does use a little more gas though.

If I were to redo my ECU/wiring I'd go with the GST/GSX harness and an Evo 8 ECU or reflashable 2g ECU setup.

 

[bradselph]

The spyders are special in the fact that even the n/t version is 95% or more the same as turbo model.

Awd swaps the same even if it is n/t or turbo.

 

[95talongirl]

This is true.... starting off with the mitsu-powered N/A would definatly be easier than a 420A powered car. I forget about this small fact. IMO.. I'd think getting the N/A car with a GSX shell would make things easier since you'll have a full car in case you overlook something small like the bolts. Having a parts car is nice.

 

[TSi Kid]

This is true.... starting off with the mitsu-powered N/A would definatly be easier than a 420A powered car. I forget about this small fact. IMO.. I'd think getting the N/A car with a GSX shell would make things easier since you'll have a full car in case you overlook something small like the bolts. Having a parts car is nice.

What does that have to do with anything? The spyder isn't a 420a, it's a 4g64.

If I were to redo my ECU/wiring I'd go with the GST/GSX harness and an Evo 8 ECU or reflashable 2g ECU setup.

So how hard would the wiring be if I wanted to run a 2.4 with a 4g63 head if I used the GSX/GST wiring harness (which you said would be easier than running a 2.4 harness). Would it be easier to sell the 2.4 and just do a 6 bolt swap into it?

The car will be a drag/street car so if I did this build I would be doing a destroked high revving 2.1.

 

[eclipsh]

What does that have to do with anything? The spyder isn't a 420a, it's a 4g64.


So how hard would the wiring be if I wanted to run a 2.4 with a 4g63 head if I used the GSX/GST wiring harness (which you said would be easier than running a 2.4 harness). Would it be easier to sell the 2.4 and just do a 6 bolt swap into it?

The car will be a drag/street car so if I did this build I would be doing a destroked high revving 2.1.

Just remember that high revving means you also need a well built tranny that can handle shifting at those RPM's. If you haven't already plan on talking to TRE or Jack's or one of those places before you decide on going that route.

Wiring for a 2.4 DOHC and a 2.0 DOHC is the same so that doesn't matter. If you use the complete turbo wiring harness it 'should' be plug-and-play. I haven't done it so do a search. There may be a few small odds and ends to deal with. One consideration will be wiring for the gage cluster since that is not part of the ECU harness but rather the dash and body harness. The N/T car won't have a boost gage and may not have an oil pressure gage either (I haven't checked a Spyder but my Galant doesn't).

 

[TSi Kid]

Just remember that high revving means you also need a well built tranny that can handle shifting at those RPM's. If you haven't already plan on talking to TRE or Jack's or one of those places before you decide on going that route.

Wiring for a 2.4 DOHC and a 2.0 DOHC is the same so that doesn't matter. If you use the complete turbo wiring harness it 'should' be plug-and-play. I haven't done it so do a search. There may be a few small odds and ends to deal with. One consideration will be wiring for the gage cluster since that is not part of the ECU harness but rather the dash and body harness. The N/T car won't have a boost gage and may not have an oil pressure gage either (I haven't checked a Spyder but my Galant doesn't).

TMZ actually

Alright then I guess it just comes down to what I want to spend money wise so we'll see when the time comes. I'm not worried about the gauge cluster since I don't like the ecus way of monitoring boost, and i'll run a oil pressure gauge as well.

Thanks for all the info on the wiring. I hate electrical and it's by far my least knowledgeable subject.

 

[eclipsh]

No problem. There is a lot of info on TheGalantCenter.org regarding turbo 4G64 systems, as well as converting the '64 harness to run a 2g turbo ecu. The 7th gen Galant is what the 2g DSM platform was based off of so the wiring etc. is very similar. It might help you in some of your wiring choices.

 

[TSi Kid]

What do you think would be easier then (wiring wise), to run a 6 bolt swap or do the 2.4?

 

[eclipsh]

There wouldn't be any difference. If I recall correctly both require wiring in a 1g cam angle sensor instead of the crank and cam sensors on 2g's.

That said, I'd hope you'll stick with the faster flowing 2g head either way (assuming you have one).

 

[TSi Kid]

That said, I'd hope you'll stick with the faster flowing 2g head either way (assuming you have one).

I didn't even think of that. If I ran a 2.4 with a 7 bolt head would that be any different wiring wise than running a 6 bolt head if I was to put a gsx wiring harness in the car?

 

[eclipsh]

I'm running a 7-bolt head on my 7-bolt 2.4 block with a 1g CAS without any trouble. It is a common setup. The wiring is no different than using a 1g head and it is very well documented.

 

[TSi Kid]

I'm running a 7-bolt head on my 7-bolt 2.4 block with a 1g CAS without any trouble. It is a common setup. The wiring is no different than using a 1g head and it is very well documented.

Awesome, thanks for the help buddy!