Away from SAFC n INJECTORS, FAST REPLY ###

[qendrim]

i have a 20g, and lets not go there...


my question is on a 4g63t engine. upgrading the 14b. what turbo can i upgrade to, without touching the injectors n installing the SAFC. I HAVE A WALBORO 255LHP FUEL PUMP, CAN STOCK 450'S HANDLE A BIG16 OR CAN THEY ALSO HANDLE EVO3 BIG 16G??????

I WANNA STAY AWAY FROM SAFC N INJECTORS!!!1 ### reply and let me know ASAP witch turbo is perfect n that i wont have to touch injectors nor have to do anythin with safc!!! thnxxx

 

[qendrim]

After reading this thread I now know why people that are making power stop posting on forums. I have a DSMLink log (somewhere on the laptop) of a stock 14b @ 18 psi with stock 450cc injectors and there @ 123%, @ 21 psi the IDC was at 167%... You might was well just run your car into a pole if you think your going to run 20 psi on ANY turbo with stock injectors.

thnx TIPS

CAN I DO THIS?

stock 450's
no safc
evo3 16g
walbro 255lhp
and run 14 to 16pnds of safe boost?

 

[bbray]

CAN I DO THIS?

stock 450's
no safc
evo3 16g
walbro 255lhp
and run 14 to 16pnds of safe boost?

Yes but you should not run more than 14lbs of boost. Your injectors cant handle more safely.

 

[qendrim]

Yes but you should not run more than 14lbs of boost. Your injectors cant handle more safely.

okay now i understand. on a evo3 16g at 14pnds how much hp am i looking?

 

[bbray]

okay now i understand. on a evo3 16g at 14pnds how much hp am i looking?

It all depends on your mods and your motor. You might get a lot of crap from the proven members from this question because there a so many variables.

With no tuning and basic mods maybe 220whp. This is just a guess. It is very hard to say. You will notice a nice difference from the 14b.

 

[oVaBoost]

well as longest you have the walbro 255lhp fuel pump and run good gas like 91 oct. whitch anyone with a turbocharged cars should run, should be good for 14-16psi cause then you wont hit fuel cut cause you got the fuel pump to feed it quick enough. but i would not go anyhigher than 16 psi cause that would be a bad deal. if i was you i would set it at 15 psi. as for hp umm you would be around 220-225 hp depending on what mods you got on it cause evo3 16g needs bigger exhaust to let all the heat and exhaust out fast so if i was you i would get an exhaust system if you dont already or it will lag alot since there stock exhaust pipe on dsm's isnt big enough pipe to let the air flow smooth it holds all the heat and not really good for the turbo. I tell you this cause i know of a person that did a 16g with stock exhaust and pretty much what you want to do and ran 21 psi and blow up the motor within 3 weeks he put the turbo in but its up to you want you wanna do we are here to help with your questions and get you the right answers if you need more help let me kno

 

[LandoAWD]

This thread is full of people TRYING to break the site rules, huh?

English. Use it.

Bench racing is a no-no, kids.

Searching is good.

Don't guess at what "might be safe", buy a logging device. Nobody here wants your "mad tyte" motor's death on their hands.

Check the upgrade path for clarification on what mods to do when. A 255 with 450s and no AFPR is stupid.

 

[DSM_PWR]

i wanna keep stock 450's with no afc.

I cant seem to understand WHY you dont wanna use an AFC? there not hard at all to setup, hell my 10 year old nephew learned quickly how to use it while playin in the car

If you plan on going bigger than a 14b your going to need bigger injectors and something to tune with, end of discussion, Just because your friend did it doesnt mean its right, i bet his IDC % is out the roof and hurting more than he knows.

Sorry but keeping your engine alive is the most important thing

 

[91tizzy]

This thread is full of people TRYING to break the site rules, huh?

English. Use it.

Bench racing is a no-no, kids.

Searching is good.

Don't guess at what "might be safe", buy a logging device. Nobody here wants your "mad tyte" motor's death on their hands.

Check the upgrade path for clarification on what mods to do when. A 255 with 450s and no AFPR is stupid.

at the mad tyte comment....to the op and anyone else that is saying "just stick to this (insert number)psi and you will be fine".....boost is a relative number....the term boost is actually a representation of the pressure in the intake from the air that is NOT getting into the combustion chamber....CFM is what is concerned with how much actual air the motor see's under boost....for example....aside from the heat that is generated by the small turbo's (13g/t25) you can run higher boost numbers than the bigger turbo's *on the stock fuel system* (im running about 17psi on my 13g with no problems) simply because they flow such a small amount of cfm. the bigger turbo's (for example the 20g) flow a considerable amount more cfm so the amount of boost naturally has to be much much lower because the cfm is so much greater*on the stock fuel system*. Make sense? And all the fuel cut comments are irrelavent....how much do we have to go through this? Fuel cut has nothing to do with "out running the fuel setup"....that is all based on airflow through the mass air although I have yet to run into fuel cut when no boost leaks air present (shrugs shoulders)

 

[jrohner]

well as longest you have the walbro 255lhp fuel pump and run good gas like 91 oct. whitch anyone with a turbocharged cars should run, should be good for 14-16psi cause then you wont hit fuel cut cause you got the fuel pump to feed it quick enough.

A fuel pump has absolutely nothing to do with fuel cut. Fuel cut is based on airflow and has nothing at all to do with fuel flow.

What are your reasons for staying away from different injectors and fuel control? Just to say 'I did this with stock stuff'? I would get injectors and fuel management before wasting my money on a different turbo. The stock injectors will be holding you back BEFORE that 14B turbo will. 14B's are pretty darn good turbos. Get injectors and get tuned and run 20psi and you'll wonder why you ever thought about running 15psi instead. Even on a 14B 15 feels slow and 20 feels pretty good. I run my talon at 20-22 psi on the 14B; I turned it down to 15 psi one day just to see how it felt and it was a DOG!

 

[qendrim]

thnx for the reply. i clearly understand on a evo 16g now.


at this moment i have a walbro 255, 450's, FPR and a 20g....
as i floor my car to the max. i get no higher than 5psi then i hit fuel cut.??? im hitting fuel cut at 5psi??? WOW???? i feel like i have less than 60hp on my car. this is bad. i doubt my wastegate is even opening bcuz , i have and external dump wastegate and i cannot hear that ROARRR sound. how can i make it work with a 20g with stock fuel system exept the fuel pump.??? or the 20g ABSOLUTELY needs bigger injectors and a SAFC??? or do i move down to smaller turbo to keep my fuel system stock????

 

[knochgoon24]

thnx for the reply. i clearly understand on a evo 16g now.


at this moment i have a walbro 255, 450's, FPR and a 20g....
as i floor my car to the max. i get no higher than 5psi then i hit fuel cut.??? im hitting fuel cut at 5psi??? WOW???? i feel like i have less than 60hp on my car. this is bad. i doubt my wastegate is even opening bcuz , i have and external dump wastegate and i cannot hear that ROARRR sound. how can i make it work with a 20g with stock fuel system exept the fuel pump.??? or the 20g ABSOLUTELY needs bigger injectors and a SAFC??? or do i move down to smaller turbo to keep my fuel system stock????

You would have what we like to call a boost leak.
Basically, you turbo is spooling like crazy, sucking in tons of air, but that pressure just leaks out the intercooler piping.

Make a boost leak tester. Costs about $10-15 in parts from a hardware store. Hook it up to your turbo inlet and pressurize it. You'll probably hear hissing sounds. Find those and fix the leaks. Eventually you should be able to pressurize it to 15-20lbs and not hear hissing. Then, you need to spray down all the places where air might leak out with soapy water. If it bubbles, fix that leak too.

If you do that, you should be fixed in no time.

P.S. Your wastegate isn't opening because you aren't hitting the pressure limit for it to open.

 

[qendrim]

You would have what we like to call a boost leak.
Basically, you turbo is spooling like crazy, sucking in tons of air, but that pressure just leaks out the intercooler piping.

Make a boost leak tester. Costs about $10-15 in parts from a hardware store. Hook it up to your turbo inlet and pressurize it. You'll probably hear hissing sounds. Find those and fix the leaks. Eventually you should be able to pressurize it to 15-20lbs and not hear hissing. Then, you need to spray down all the places where air might leak out with soapy water. If it bubbles, fix that leak too.

If you do that, you should be fixed in no time.

P.S. Your wastegate isn't opening because you aren't hitting the pressure limit for it to open.

Thank You. and i do have a boost leak a big 1 nd i didnt think it would matter that much (dont laugh), and i also have a turbosmart BC it dosent work very well, can i remove it and make straight T hose joints??? witch would give me factory boost correct????

 

[talon96tsi]

This is rediculous. First of all you should never run a 255 without an afpr. This is common knowledge. Second off, there is absolutly no reason why you would want to run anything less then 550's with a bigger turbo. You are wasting money IMO.

 

[91tizzy]

Thank You. and i do have a boost leak a big 1 nd i didnt think it would matter that much (dont laugh), and i also have a turbosmart BC it dosent work very well, can i remove it and make straight T hose joints??? witch would give me factory boost correct????

yes running a direct hose from the pressure source on the turbo directly to the wastegate actuator will make the boost setting whatever the spring is set to...
fix that leak and run wastegate pressure until you get more fuel

 

[jrohner]

Thank You. and i do have a boost leak a big 1 nd i didnt think it would matter that much (dont laugh), and i also have a turbosmart BC it dosent work very well, can i remove it and make straight T hose joints??? witch would give me factory boost correct????

Anything more than a very minor boost leak will definitely make a difference. It seems like the throttle shaft seals always leak a little (get hardened over time and don't seal as well); I consider that the only acceptable leak (because it is not enough of a leak to throw off your tune, and because it's a quite a bit of work to fix).

Just having the T bleeding off pressure with the stock BCS will give you approximately stock boost. What I did on one of my cars was run the hose without the BCS, which adds a couple more pounds of boost. On my talon I run a T that is less restrictive inside than the stock one and no BCS and it's at 20+ PSI and works very well.

 

[qendrim]

This is rediculous. First of all you should never run a 255 without an afpr. This is common knowledge. Second off, there is absolutly no reason why you would want to run anything less then 550's with a bigger turbo. You are wasting money IMO.

if you read above i do have AFPR, and i want to stay in stock injectors, i do have 550s but i need SAFC nd i wanna stay away from these i dont know if u understand me, but i want to stay away from SAFC n Injectors, if i have to change turbos i WILL. thnx reply back

 

[qendrim]

yes running a direct hose from the pressure source on the turbo directly to the wastegate actuator will make the boost setting whatever the spring is set to...
fix that leak and run wastegate pressure until you get more fuel

thnx. and a direct hookup would give me factory 14pnds?

 

[qendrim]

Anything more than a very minor boost leak will definitely make a difference. It seems like the throttle shaft seals always leak a little (get hardened over time and don't seal as well); I consider that the only acceptable leak (because it is not enough of a leak to throw off your tune, and because it's a quite a bit of work to fix).

Just having the T bleeding off pressure with the stock BCS will give you approximately stock boost. What I did on one of my cars was run the hose without the BCS, which adds a couple more pounds of boost. On my talon I run a T that is less restrictive inside than the stock one and no BCS and it's at 20+ PSI and works very well.

any chance u can get a photo in here how it looks. with all the vaccume lines n stuff. bcuz i dont like BCS, it pisses me offf i hearrr PSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH from my BCS when i adjust it so i just completly turn it to 0

 

[qendrim]

I cant seem to understand WHY you dont wanna use an AFC? there not hard at all to setup, hell my 10 year old nephew learned quickly how to use it while playin in the car

If you plan on going bigger than a 14b your going to need bigger injectors and something to tune with, end of discussion, Just because your friend did it doesnt mean its right, i bet his IDC % is out the roof and hurting more than he knows.

Sorry but keeping your engine alive is the most important thing

injectors are no problem. i mean its only 3 bills pop in, but the SAFC is 3 bills n Magnus is asking 5 to 7 bills to tune like WTF.

 

[knochgoon24]

Tune SAFC yourself. There's plenty of writeups.

 

[qendrim]

Tune SAFC yourself. There's plenty of writeups.

on a 20g i will need bigger injectors n SAFC only if i wanna go over 14pnds of boost???


can i run 14pnds now n later upgrade those???

 

[91tizzy]

dude you are wiggin out...just chill..is the 20g on the car? if so then do what I and others have said and run wastegate pressure...not exactly sure what psi that will put you at but it should not be over 14 pounds and GET THE SAFC AND BIGGER INJECTORS WHEN YOU CAN....if you cant install or tune an safc then sell the car man say it with me .............woooosaaahhhhh..........its just boost what you skurred of???

 

[robinho609]

just spend a lil money and get ## hands dirty and upgrade the injectors......they arent gonna break ## wallet

 

[robinho609]

and use 93octane not 91

 

[qendrim]

dude you are wiggin out...just chill..is the 20g on the car? if so then do what I and others have said and run wastegate pressure...not exactly sure what psi that will put you at but it should not be over 14 pounds and GET THE SAFC AND BIGGER INJECTORS WHEN YOU CAN....if you cant install or tune an safc then sell the car man say it with me .............woooosaaahhhhh..........its just boost what you skurred of???

thnk u tizzy