Argghh, never a simple decision around these cars (Race motor build)

[drivemusicnow]

Okay, The car is being built solely for Road racing, but as I'm in college, I'm trying to do a budget build. It will be seeing 350-400AWHP and pushed HARD. This is basically going to be my cheap motor that I may blow up, and or sell when I can afford to get the real deal 2.4 from Mitch at Engintecs. College = expensive. *Feel free if you know the answer to any single question or something to mention it. This is a LONG post)

I need the motor built in a month or less for as cheaply as possible. Would like to keep this Engine under $2000 at all costs.

I've got a couple options. i would REALLY prefer having Mitch work on the motor, however he is overloaded with work and there is no way he would be able to get to it with in a month.

Parts I have
7 bolt 4g64 Crank (new)
7 bolt front cover (new)
7 bolt block, mild machining neccesary (it's been sitting for a little while)
7 bolt stock rods, (new)
6 bolt "big" rods (used but in good shape)
I've got a 6 bolt and a 7 bolt head (used but in good shape)


Because i have these parts (got them and a BUNCH of other things for 500$ from a buddy) I figured I would build a 2.3 liter 7 bolt stroker. If I was to do this...

Parts I would need
Pistons (obviously forged with the 100mm crank.) (wisecos are 440, Mahles are about the same)
Full OEm gasket set (on green performance for 200$)
Full timing belt "kit" (Ongreen for 175$)
Bearings, clevites or OEM (almost anywhere for about 100$
Headgasket (cometic MLS) (about 105$ )

Parts cost is sitting at just over 1500$ at this point


Machining I would need
Head and block deck need to be machined to a MLS acceptable finish
Block needs to be clearanced for the stroker crank
Block needs to be Bored/Honed

Depending on the answer to the two questions below, This machine work could range from 150-400$ I believe.

Here are my questions:

1) From the Vfaq LINKY It shows that 7 bolt rods are 1/10th of an inch wider (big end) than 6 bolt motors are. Can you machine that 5/100ths from each side and use them with a 7 bolt crankshaft? I believe I've read that they can, however I was wondering if anyone can shed any light on this. Details, especially regarding bearings would be helpful!

2) I KNOW you can machine 6 bolt rods to accept a floating pin, However would it be worth it to machine both ends of the rods versus getting some Eagles. I don't know how labor intensive it is to do.

3) What am I missing? Other than measuring/checking clearances/ and making sure I get the right parts, is there anything I'm not thinking about?

4) What is the best way to clean a head that has been sitting around for awhile? I know a hot tank would be bad for the valve seals, and was wondering about other methods such as a solvent bath etc.

5) Does anyone know more information about the "Mahle" pistons? They're OEM for some porsches, they're used in aftermarket for BMW and such, but Obviously they are new for DSMs. I planned on just using Wiseco's but I know that the Mahle pistons are lighter, and similar cost so I figured they might be worth it.

6) Should I wait until Mitch can get to it for the machine work, and have him help me with some of the assembly (More time, more $, Higher quality) Should I have my local machine shop do the machining, assemble it myself and save time, money, lose the quality, Or should I have a "friend of a friend" who's family owns a machine shop and the guy has built 4-5 2.3 liters in the past year or so for people do it. He is farther away, I don't know him, but he does have experience with 2.3 7 bolt stroker motors. This would cost a little more, time should be minimal, and quality is better than local machine shop, but not near Mitch's attention to detail.


I'm so confuzzed.

 

[ISUJakey]

Should I wait until Mitch can get to it for the machine work, and have him help me with some of the assembly (More time, more $, Higher quality)

Yep.

 

[project_tsi]

There's plenty of other people besided Mitch that have built countless 4G63's.

FFWD, AMS, Buschur, SBR, just to name a few.

 

[dnhieu]

okay maybe im just tired from working on cars till 2am and getting up at 7 BUT how are you going to get a stroker with using stock rods, and crank? if i were you and knew how to put a bottem end togher i would let the friend of the friend do the machine work because....

1. He might give you the best service avaliable because of the friend thing.
2. he might give you a deal you cant turn down.
3. if your friends bring work there and there cars are running fine why not you?
4. your trying to save money and build a car, they ushally dont go hand and hand but you need to cut cost as much as possible.

 

[project_tsi]

You can build a stroker using the stock rods. A stroker uses stock legth rods. But you need the longer 100mm stroke crank, and special, shorter stroker pistons. But again, the rod length is unchanged and can be used in a stroker build.

 

[MrPikolo]

What do you plan on running for a turbo, boost, rpms and such?

I would suggest just running the stock 2.0 with arp headbolt. I'm sure this would last you a while at the power you want to make.

As for a stroker, you can easily get either a used 2.4 crank or a remain one pretty cheap. Pistons is probably going to be the most expensive part. The machine work shouldn't be to bad. Any real machine shop can do it. Your motor alone can be easily built for under 2,000.

 

[drivemusicnow]

What do you plan on running for a turbo, boost, rpms and such?

I would suggest just running the stock 2.0 with arp headbolt. I'm sure this would last you a while at the power you want to make.

As for a stroker, you can easily get either a used 2.4 crank or a remain one pretty cheap. Pistons is probably going to be the most expensive part. The machine work shouldn't be to bad. Any real machine shop can do it. Your motor alone can be easily built for under 2,000.

Turbo is an FP Green
Boost will be ~20psi/whatever I can tune on pump and be somewhat conservative, then I'll run Race unleaded.
Redline will be set at 7500 for now, I may bump that up later depending on how it responds around those RPMs.

I was planning on running a stock 2.0. But I have the crank. My original 2.0 7 bolt was trashed, and I was going to have Mitch build a 2.4L 6 Bolt to replace it, however money got tight and I had to spend the $5k in other places.

I don't think it is worth the effort to try and machine the rods to work with both a floating wrist pin, AND a 7 bolt crank, So i'll probably be buying some. Most likely Scat, or Manley.

I'm still quite unsure about pistons. I'm doing some research and contacting some companies as far as that goes. CP, Mahle, and even Manley pistons are new on the DSM scene so there isn't a lot of knowledge as far as how they last, and how they fail (probably more important than the former, due to the fact that almost any piston will support the power levels i'm going for, however the way in which they fail directly effects the cost associated with a rebuild)

We'll see how it all works out.

 

[HRCEngineering]

If you need your motor built shoot me a message. I should be able to get to it around work, or possibly do it at work on break. I am in Glendale Heights and working in Schaumburg Lexus. Let me know if I could be of help.

-Ray

 

[TSIfreek]

I dont think mitch will touch a 7 bolt. Mitch has some custom wiesco pistons as well. Dont make things more difficult than they really are go with basic known quality parts. Your block/rotating assembley maching quality will go along way with a touble free long lasting motor.

 

[drivemusicnow]

Well, I guess I should update this. The motor is built. I went with a 2.3 liter 7 bolt. JE pistons and some eagle rods. I had the friend of a friend build it, and while it took forever to get the motor, everything seems to be done right. I'm using a stock head for now with some ARP head studs. I'll probably throw a set of BC cams and possible springs and retainers at a later date.

Still need to finish the timing and bolt the new front cover on. For a variety of reasons this project took way longer than expected (which I guess is "to be expected" when doing something like this).

After I graduate school I'll have Mitch build a 2.4 with some longer rods. But for right now I have this motor at about half of the cost, and it should be what I need. Hopefully he'll be a little less busy (maybe?) and I will have a bit more cash to do such things.

I'm going to be dropping the motor and trans into the car when I get back from school and hopefully finishing up all of the details as far as that goes. In a year or so I'll be finishing up some of the other higher dollar parts and see what happens from there.