Another crank pulley gone....

[blcknspo0ln]

to replace your crank pulley?

do it yourself, trust me. 4 bolts [use a damn breaker bar] and some belts.. 'nuff said

 

[95GSXBLUR]

Who...besides Buschur, would you or anyone recommend?

Unorthodox - No problems so far... lightweight one piece. I got the "Tuner" version.. no bling or anything just polished aluminum. it was about $100.. direct from unorthodox.

 

[Defiant]

to replace your crank pulley?

do it yourself, trust me. 4 bolts [use a damn breaker bar] and some belts.. 'nuff said

Nearly. Make certain that the crank doesn't turn backward (CCW, looking at the nose). It can jump your timing faster than you can say awshit.

 

[doug]

Who...besides Buschur, would you or anyone recommend?

To replace, or to purchase a replacement? For a replacement purchase of a dampened pulley, there really isn't any other option besides Buschur that I know of. Fluidampr is supposed to be coming out with a dampened pulley for the 4G63, but every time I write them they still say "it's coming soon."

I've been using a one-piece undampened lightweight crank pulley for almost 3 years with no problems and highly recommend one.

 

[GPTourer]

Let us know if that fixes you up. I have a squeeler too. I will check my pulley soon.

Seth

Seems like that was my problem. I didn't squeal that night, and I cranked it up this morning to check and no squeal.

I drove my 1G to have it checked.

 

[92tealTSI]

Before you guys go slapping aftermarket undampened pulleys on.

I did this about 600 miles ago to replace a worn out oem one. Oddly after 600 miles of driving my flywheel bolts came loose. I torqued them and loctited when I re-built the motor 4,000 miles ago. I believe it is from the lack of dampener sending vibrations through the crankshaft. Something to think about.

Ended up costing me around 600 to fix it all, new clutch and a new flywheel. Ill only use dampened pulleys from now on.

 

[szewczyd]

Before you guys go slapping aftermarket undampened pulleys on.

I did this about 600 miles ago to replace a worn out oem one. Oddly after 600 miles of driving my flywheel bolts came loose. I torqued them and loctited when I re-built the motor 4,000 miles ago. I believe it is from the lack of dampener sending vibrations through the crankshaft. Something to think about.

Ended up costing me around 600 to fix it all, new clutch and a new flywheel. Ill only use dampened pulleys from now on.

Hey man, you and your friend are the ones that tried to rip me off years back on that black and silver talon, Made me drive all the way from WI. nice to see you again "As clean as they come" when I got there I found bondo and rust holes.. No hard feelings

Back to the post:
Do you have an aftermarket flywheel such as a findanza? If so you are suppose to use longer bolts, this could have been the cause of them coming loose, just an idea. I know forced performance has them, and there are a few threads on here about it. I would get them for you, but you wasted my time once, so I ain't going to waste more time on you finding them for you.

 

[92tealTSI]

I forgot about that car.

But I bought the car to re-sell. Powertrain wise the car was perfect, we sunk almost 4g's into making the car rock solid, I never did any of the body cleaning, that was my friend lukes responsibility. Honestly had I known it was that bad I would have insisted he ask alot less. The car sold though.

But it was on a stock flywheel w\ stock bolts, I have an Xact flywheel w\ ARP's and the spacer plate now.

 

[doug]

Ended up costing me around 600 to fix it all, new clutch and a new flywheel.

Sorry that happened, but this is the only case like that I've ever heard of. And it's still cheaper than rebuilding your whole engine because of bent valves from a shattered stocker.

 

[tighty]

So...who has experience with the undampened crank pulleys? The one I saw on the Buschur site was like...$300...a little more then I want to spend for the pulley, but I also don't want it to cause problems. I've read that its probably ok to use the undampened ones on an engine thats been balanced/blueprinted but who has horror stories from using it on an engine thats not balanced/blueprinted?

Just trying to weigh my options as when I go to change it I don't really want to spend $100 to get another one that will seperate in x amount of time, as opposed to spending a little more for one that won't...but $300 seems a little steep =).

 

[GPTourer]

Well it looks like they last 80-100K miles. For me that's a lifetime. It took me 4 years to put 40,000 miles on this car (it had 42K when I got it), so going back to OEM was the only real option. The problems of the aftermarket pulleys not being dampened, plus their expense made it a done deal for me to go OEM.

 

[92tealTSI]

MY motor was balanced and blueprinted and it still happened

 

[doug]

The problems of the aftermarket pulleys not being dampened, plus their expense made it a done deal for me to go OEM.

Huh? My aftermarket pulley was like $40.

 

[SethA]

Seems like that was my problem. I didn't squeal that night, and I cranked it up this morning to check and no squeal.

I drove my 1G to have it checked.

Cool. I wonder if it was the pulley, or new belts on a clean pulley surface? Either way I will check mine out and probably replace it.

Thanks

Seth

 

[GPTourer]

Huh? My aftermarket pulley was like $40.

Okay, so there are cheap ones, but the ones that claim to be dampened might be a lot more? I admit, I don't know much about them other then I have heard of people having problems with them. So it doesn't matter if its free, $40 or $300 - I am not going to use one.

 

[MNGSX]

So...who has experience with the undampened crank pulleys? The one I saw on the Buschur site was like...$300...a little more then I want to spend for the pulley, but I also don't want it to cause problems. I've read that its probably ok to use the undampened ones on an engine thats been balanced/blueprinted but who has horror stories from using it on an engine thats not balanced/blueprinted?

Just trying to weigh my options as when I go to change it I don't really want to spend $100 to get another one that will seperate in x amount of time, as opposed to spending a little more for one that won't...but $300 seems a little steep =).

I dont think you know what balanced and blueprinted really means.

Even on all out drag racing V8s with a forged crank, forged, rods, billet main caps, racing shop balancing job... They still use a aftermarket hamonic damper.

Its not a balancer... Its a damper.

From what I have heard from ATI is the OEM damper is'nt very good as compared to other dampers. I personally would never run w/o a damper...

Keep an eye on the market. A new ATI for will be coming out..

 

[tighty]

I dont think you know what balanced and blueprinted really means.

Even on all out drag racing V8s with a forged crank, forged, rods, billet main caps, racing shop balancing job... They still use a aftermarket hamonic damper.

Its not a balancer... Its a damper.

From what I have heard from ATI is the OEM damper is'nt very good as compared to other dampers. I personally would never run w/o a damper...

Keep an eye on the market. A new ATI for will be coming out..

I thought it mean't that everything was as close to factory specifications, tolerances, clearances..etc, as possible. Regardless, the only times I've seen it mentioned that its viable to use an undamped pulley have been on rebuilt engines that are blueprinted, not say, on a vehicle with 70-90k miles on it and whos specs might be a little more...out of spec. I don't know if this is true or not...hence the previous questions...

 

[MNGSX]

Balancing on an inline 4 in simplest terms is making sure that each part 180* out from the other has the same mass.

Dampers 101

The whole page is worth a read..

While your motor is running, you have some pistons that are being pushed downward on a power stroke, some that are being pulled down by the crankshaft, and then there are some that are being pushed upward by the crankshaft. Now think about this entire system happening 8,000+ times per minute! Even further, think about all of these different actions that are taking place, and then imagine them happening on the same piece of metal - the crankshaft. These actions make that shaft twist in one direction away from its natural home location, and then when it tries to come back to that home location, its momentum makes it travel past its original location and farther in the other direction. This is what I measure when I am damper testing and the name of that action is, Degrees of Twist – Peak to Peak. That is crankshaft twist. That is what breaks parts and robs you of horsepower when there is nothing to counteract and eliminate the twist. In this system, the worst torsional vibrations, or twist, will always occur at the farthest point from the greatest load, or the heaviest mass.

Once these vibrations get to the front of the motor, something there needs to counteract that motion. That is where the damper comes into play. The damper’s job is to absorb and counteract as much of the twist as it possibly can. If you have the right damper on your motor, almost all of the twist can be eliminated. With the wrong damper, however, virtually all of the twist can remain.

You may be wondering what that has to do with HP? Remember from above what is also at the front of your motor - your camshaft drive. If the front of your crankshaft is twisting, then your camshaft drive is also twisting. If your camshaft position is being changed or varies, then the engine cannot properly induce, combust and remove the fuel. That means a loss in power!

You must have a reliable damper that is capable of properly combating these vibrations and twist. Your stock damper, or stock style damper, is simply a piece of soft steel that has a rubber ring that has been melted in between another steel ring. The inherent problem with that design is that there is no way to maintain concentricity of the inertia ring during manufacturing. Therefore, the damper has to be machined and balanced after the inertia weight has been bonded to the rubber strip. That means when the outer ring slips you lose your timing marks, damper balance and concentricity! The stock damper works just fine as long as you do not make many changes to the motor, such as HP or RPM, from when it was stock and if the damper is not very old. When you start changing those things, you cannot count on your stock damper to do its job. Not to mention if that damper is old and worn out, the outer ring has a good chance of slipping or even separating from the rest of the damper and coming off your engine completely! Many different styles of aftermarket dampers are available. Through many years of testing and tuning, the O-ring style Elastomer damper has proven to be the best choice for performance applications, especially when high RPM is being applied. Additionally, this style is rebuildable and even tunable for your particular engine.

 

[doug]

Interesting read, but I've yet to see anybody on here say "Yep, my engine fell apart (or whatever) because I had an undampened pulley on it." However, I HAVE seen several people say "Yep, my engine had to be rebuilt because the stock crank pulley exploded." I'll take my chances with the one-piece pulley.

 

[Defiant]

Balancing on an inline 4 in simplest terms is making sure that each part 180* out from the other has the same mass.

Dampers 101

The whole page is worth a read..

He doesn't mention the four-cylinder's secondary imbalance, which the Silent Shafts were invented for.

 

[Defiant]

Interesting read, but I've yet to see anybody on here say "Yep, my engine fell apart (or whatever) because I had an undampened pulley on it." However, I HAVE seen several people say "Yep, my engine had to be rebuilt because the stock crank pulley exploded." I'll take my chances with the one-piece pulley.

http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1513989&postcount=31
http://www.dsmtuners.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2580

 

[doug]

OK, I stand corrected. One person-- maybe.

As was mentioned in one of those links, Fluidampr is supposedly almost ready with their dampened pulley for the 4G63. I write to them about it occasionally and they always say that they're "getting close".

 

[GPTourer]

Cool. I wonder if it was the pulley, or new belts on a clean pulley surface? Either way I will check mine out and probably replace it.

Thanks

Seth

Dammit. The squeak is back. The pulley didn't solve my problem. It only helped it a little. It will only happen when I turn on my air when the car is cold and idling real low. Once I reach operating temp, it goes away. I wonder if changing my alt pulley and belt will rid me of it forever.

 

[doug]

No, but tightening your A/C belt might.

 

[SethA]

No, but tightening your A/C belt might.

I have tightened the crap out of my alternator belt, that is my problem child. It didn't help. I keep tightening it a little more each time. It seems like it is too tight now (there is less distortion than the manual says), but it still makes noise on cold start up or during idle with heavy electrical loads. I will try cleaning my pulleys and a new belt. I wonder if something in the alternator could be taking a dump? Also, the battery is getting a little old but it cranks fast and I don't have any of the symptoms of a weak battery (dimming gages, flakey radio, etc). Any suggestions?

Seth