All motor hybrid questions.

[Spyder Sean]

Ok bought a 96 gs spyder had a 2.4l sohc head. Just bought a 2.0 Dohc. Was going to turbo but decided too many problems as this will be my DD in the summer only! Would like to push At least 300 WHP. Need ideas for the head parts for now building one thing at a time. I have looked in to kiggly behive springs and 280 cams is this a g9od.start or not? If you could list parts below that would help me get this.goal and links please do thanks.

 

[dsmgst1996]

Well congrats on the wind fall !!!! insurance would remain the same because your car is still a gs on the title so that agreement is out. If you have a turbo motor build it you will get much more enjoyment out of it . The problem with doing a n/a dsm is there are not that many people out there doing them for one they are no where near as reliable and "reliable" is a relative term in the dsm community . I can under stand where you are coming from thinking that n/a is the way to go Honda's run for ever and they do my girl drives one i know guys that have built them and they where quick for what they are they also weigh a lot less . But 300+ hp on a n/a dsm is not really something that's going to be smooth much less reliable your going to need your compression way high and some nasty cams valves and springs also crank work or new crank new intake . If you know how to build a honda the principals are the same they are both gas powered motors . I really hope you achive your goals I just hope when a gst or gsx smoke by you you dont reget the money wasted

 

[Cdc1221]

Of all the pointless threads I've seen, this takes the trophy. Everyone tells you it can't be done and you call them haters. Dude, you need bigger displacement to make that power. Best idea, sell your spyder to a more deserving owner, and buy a z28. 300 HP, and you don't have to work on it

 

[Heartless]

Ok for one sorry if I believe boost is cheating just my opionon if you don't like it then you can leave my discussion this post was here to help me put togather a car I don't know anything about. And some of you are helping me others are just talking shit. And for 2 I can some of you know shit about Honda's. Most Hondas that are all motor dependindbon the car take anywhere between 5-8000 $ to build I bought itbs if you know what that is that costed me about 2500$. And if you guys wunna look really stupid go to YouTube and type in otl raceing guys are pushing 320 who with over 12k in the car. Now can I get help or what. Haters goin to Hate

No, dsm's aren't about spending 12k to make hardly any power. They're about spending 2k and being able to beat 90% of everything out there... You hit the nail on the coffin there, you know nothing about dsm's and assume honda theory transfers over, sorry it just doesn't in the same respect, but like the post above says you'll have to sport race fuel if not alky to get those numbers and Im doubting you'll want to do that....

 

[99ECLIPSEGSXDSM]

This one I want all motor no cheater boost. People who build motors have more of a reliable car. No boost leaks. Less money depending on the build probably in this case not mine.

Damn this is makeing me wish I kept my Honda. I put a little under 8k in the motor and it wasn't boosted and pushed almost 320.

8k for almost 320...

 

[CrackedDSM]

OP- A 300hp NA 4g64 will be far less reliable and much more expensive than a properly turbocharged 4g64. You have 2 options here:

1. Swap the DOHC head onto the 4g64 block and boost it. While 300hp wouldn't be difficult, your limited by the NA pistons in the 4g64 block. So building the engine wouldn't be a bad idea.

2. Swap a 4g63 into the car. You won't have the low end torque of the 4g64, but you'll have much more room to grow with the factory turbo engine. You could use the 4g64 crank to build a 2.3 stroker, but that requires building the engine with aftermarket internals.

Gotta disagree with this. Making the 4G64 boost ready is as simple as throwing in some stock oversized 1G or 2G turbo pistons. Rods are the same as turbo 4G63 rods, and the cranks can handle extremely decent horsepower(about the same, possibly a little less than a stock 4G63 crank), so saying the only options are to build the motor or swap in a 4G63...doesn't make a whole lot of sense. For that matter there are spyder guys that turbo'ed their N/T spyder block with great success. 260-300fwhp for 3+ years with no issues.


People are so quick to throw the "oh the n/t block is weak" card, but personal experience shows that detonation and piss-poor setups are what kill the motors, and that will happen just as fast to a turbo block. I'd turbo a n/t spyder again in a heartbeat after helping to turbo my buddies for next to nothing, and it putting down 287fwhp and having perfect compression for 3+ years until he sold the car to some ricer, who immediately turned the boost up.

 

[Firsts tuner]

8k for almost 320...

But you gotta look at it this way. It is going to cost alot when they only come with 32.0whp to start off with. Edit: that came off rude. For that I'm sorry. I made this mistake once on here before. You can't get on an enthusiast site and call them cheaters or dog their rides because you have a different mind set. If you have 100k to blow on a N/T motor then by all means go to an engine builder and let them do it so you dont have to listen to us cheaters in our factory boosted cars. Who's really hating here.

 

[WES_393]

Gotta disagree with this. Making the 4G64 boost ready is as simple as throwing in some stock oversized 1G or 2G turbo pistons. Rods are the same as turbo 4G63 rods, and the cranks can handle extremely decent horsepower(about the same, possibly a little less than a stock 4G63 crank), so saying the only options are to build the motor or swap in a 4G63...doesn't make a whole lot of sense. For that matter there are spyder guys that turbo'ed their N/T spyder block with great success. 260-300fwhp for 3+ years with no issues.


People are so quick to throw the "oh the n/t block is weak" card, but personal experience shows that detonation and piss-poor setups are what kill the motors, and that will happen just as fast to a turbo block. I'd turbo a n/t spyder again in a heartbeat after helping to turbo my buddies for next to nothing, and it putting down 287fwhp and having perfect compression for 3+ years until he sold the car to some ricer, who immediately turned the boost up.

I never said the NT engine is weak, I said the pistons will limit the safe horsepower to around 300. Exactly what you just said. And I'm not aware of any stock turbo pistons that come in 86.5mm.

 

[91stocker]

Where is this proof of said 320whp n/a honda? That seems to be very close to the record. Didnt the once record holding honda run low 9's with 280whp n/a?

I've seen loads of "full builds" make 220-230ish. I dont see a non big money sponsored car making anywhere near 300 crank even.

 

[Spyder Sean]

Thanks someone who actually has done this. People on here putting there 2cents in. When all I'm trying to do is get help nd ask questions.

 

[miliman13]

Spyder Sean. . , This Quote below is what this is all about. I apologize for anyone who may have steered away from this "mission statement" .
We are here to help. And if you can break the bar, by all means create a build thread were you can show the community how to achieve what you are looking for.
**Also please use spell check, and review your post's, it's too easy to do****

Here is the Quote from the Main Home Page.

Our Mission
The number one goal of DSMtuners is to promote the sharing of information and ideas regarding modifications, parts, and the real world results of those modifications in relation to the DSM platform. We are an inclusive community that isn't selective in our registration process, however we do demand a certain level of respect and maturity from our members in order to foster a positive atmosphere. We have a small set of rules and policies that everyone is required to follow. We discourage elitist, negative and divisive attitudes and demand a friendly, respectful atmosphere. Newcomers are expected to do their own research before asking questions and are not to spread misinformation. Be a positive contributor and help us keep the DSM community thriving!

 

[Cirus_93TSI]

ill just flat out say it, since no one else wants to be blunt. a dsm is not a honda.
in the honda world fast n/a builds are as common as anything, in the dsm world they are almost non-existent, the vast majority of dsm people go turbo because the n/a dsm engines were never designed for high performance or really high rpm like most honda engines are. people have already spent the truckloads of money to research and design parts for n/a hondas, but with a dsm theres little interest in high power n/a applications, so it would be you shelling out all that research and design money.
this means that your not going to be ordering many off the shelf parts to try and almost triple your stock n/a horsepower, your going to be ordering custom spec cams, having an intake manifold custom made for an n/a application, rebuilding your bottom end for higher compression, lots of head work, a really good tune, and so on.

you seem to be under the impression that you can order some bolt ons and minor engine parts from somewhere and just slap it together to make that kind of n/a power on a dsm, and thats just not the case, a dsm is not a honda. im sure it can be done, but its going to be a long and costly road with lots of custom parts and serious engine work to get there.

 

[Spyder Sean]

Okay fine ill turbo . Need ideas to push some major whp. So ideas starting with valve springs and cams would be good. It's going on a 63 head that has a 64 block.

 

[dsmaz]

i had an idea like yours at one time. With some research I found you can put a 1g nt head on the 64 block and have a resulting compression of around 11.0:1. That sounds like a good upgrade for a dd. If you wanted even more you could always pnp,cam and tune it.

 

[Spyder Sean]

Actually my 1g head just came a few days ago . I was thinking running kiggly beehive springs and.some 280 cams that's all.I.got so.far.

 

[Cdc1221]

You need to match cams to the turbo you plan to run, and the compression ratio, rather than throwing parts at it because the brochure says it'll add power. Best bet is to look at build sheets from the top guys on the turbo you want to run and see what they're using to do it

 

[Spyder Sean]

I never said the NT engine is weak, I said the pistons will limit the safe horsepower to around 300. Exactly what you just said. And I'm not aware of any stock turbo pistons that come in 86.5mm.

Actually my 2.4l sohc came with 86.5mm pistons just an fyi

Ok well my first set up was to run a tx or th 40 turbo than swap in some t3 manifolds and a few other things. But ideas would be great. The reason why I'm building this is yes I said I miss my Honda and I do. But everybody and their mother has one up here and it's old everybody hated on the dsms up here so I thought I would give them a reason to hate on them . Ideas for a car pushing some good really good who would be Awsome. I would appreciate it and any parts that anyone has that would help out let me know. The heads just setting here intell I figure out what I need.

Spyder Sean: what i am about to say is not intended to be rude or bias, but it obviously seems like you have not done your research very well, nor do you understand the potential these motors have. 8k ??for a honda engine, to squeeze out what a 4g63 does bone stock.

1. dsm are the most affordable factory boosted cars on the road/ with un-limitlessness potential.

2. if boosting is cheating. then your a sore loser. that word was created by people who don't like to loose, or see others win.

3. "respectfully" maybe your right, perhaps you should return to the Honda game.

Hey watch this video it's all motor Honda. Tell me this looks cheap. Not trying to be rude just showing you something for the future. [ame]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J9yhgW7WRpU[/ame]

 

[dsmgst1996]

Actually my 2.4l sohc came with 86.5mm pistons just an fyi

the comment was stock turbo pistons witch your car does not have .


[/QUOTE]Hey watch this video it's all motor Honda. Tell me this looks cheap. Not trying to be rude just showing you something for the future. [ame=http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=J9yhgW7WRpU]Manny OTL All Motor K24 Dyno - YouTube[/ame][/QUOTE]

sounds like a typical honda owner running there mouth and spent way more money than needed to pull a 10 second pass i mean that is somthing to brag about but I would like to see the time slip of his 10.0 pass not just a dyno sheet.

Glad you are going turbo tho.

 

[Spyder Sean]

Foot YouTube and type in in otl racing he actually ran a 9 with this car. But with no boost man how can you hate on thAt. Pretty sick if you ask me. But anyways someone said I should reshape my walls before I buy pistons. Anyone on here know. Awsome boost set up since I'm going to give it a shot. And this is actually the first car I've built by myself. I usually just buy whT my friends tell me and they put it on. But I'm tryin to put a whooping on their Hondas so Pointers please

the comment was stock turbo pistons witch your car does not have .


Hey they were stock just not turbo

 

[dsmgst1996]

Foot YouTube and type in in otl racing he actually ran a 9 with this car. But with no boost man how can you hate on thAt. Pretty sick if you ask me. But anyways someone said I should reshape my walls before I buy pistons. Anyone on here know. Awsome boost set up since I'm going to give it a shot. And this is actually the first car I've built by myself. I usually just buy whT my friends tell me and they put it on. But I'm tryin to put a whooping on their Hondas so Pointers please

the comment was stock turbo pistons witch your car does not have .


Hey they were stock just not turbo

Well now that your going turbo what are you horsepower goals still 300 or have you raised them . Because you have a 4g63 head and 280 cams hx40 works well with those cams but depending on your currant goals that turbo is too big. also what parts do you currently have ?

 

[WES_393]

Actually my 2.4l sohc came with 86.5mm pistons just an fyi

Reading is essential.

And I'm not aware of any stock turbo pistons that come in 86.5mm.

Ok well my first set up was to run a tx or th 40 turbo than swap in some t3 manifolds and a few other things. But ideas would be great. The reason why I'm building this is yes I said I miss my Honda and I do. But everybody and their mother has one up here and it's old everybody hated on the dsms up here so I thought I would give them a reason to hate on them . Ideas for a car pushing some good really good who would be Awsome. I would appreciate it and any parts that anyone has that would help out let me know. The heads just setting here intell I figure out what I need.

We need an actual goal, as in horsepower or ET. If your just looking to smoke your average NA Honda then 300-350hp would be more than enough. You could easily get there with the stock DOHC head (optional), stock 2g turbo I/E manifolds, a 16g turbo, and all the proper supporting mods.

The DOHC head isn't even necessary, but it will make things a little easier now and in the future. You need to plug some oil drains in the block and replace/remark the 4g63 cam gears which is discussed here and here. To boost the engine using stock turbo parts, you can look here here for a good write-up.

And 280 cams and Kiggly Beehive's are way overkill. The stock 4g64 bottom end can't even reliably handle over 350hp or 7-7.5K RPM, so the most I would suggest is some mild 272's (DKS, BC, etc) and maybe slightly upgraded springs (BC or Manley).

But anyways someone said I should reshape my walls before I buy pistons. Anyone on here know. Awsome boost set up since I'm going to give it a shot. And this is actually the first car I've built by myself. I usually just buy whT my friends tell me and they put it on. But I'm tryin to put a whooping on their Hondas so Pointers please

There's no reason to "reshape" your cylinders, unless you buy square pistons. However, it would be a good idea to have the cylinders inspected by a machinist and honed/bored if needed. If you wanted to run forged pistons you need full-flaoting rods as well. And at that point your looking at a full rebuild, which might not be the best idea unless you have experience doing so.

And as a bit of personal advice, stop listening to your friends. The only people you should even consider advice from is those who modify their own DSM. Even then you should be still be skeptical, especially since your DSM is an oddball.

 

[boost97gst]

Damn those dudes are pure garbage in that video. They dont deserve to be in the presence of a motor that bad ass. The one complete F A G saying my n!gga constantlly really got under my skin. Fn fast n furious crowd. Thats hondas biggest problem.

That engine is a masterpiece though. i couldnt stomach watching too much of the douchebaggery but was he spraying meth or nitrous or was that really a 347whp 2L engine?? Im impressed. One would be silly to question the power and reliability of the honda, like i said, its the people that buy them that give them a horrible rep.

There has to be over 30k in that engine. It sounds alot llike my 09 zx10r kawi. Hes getting some seriously high revs out of it.

And hey, go for it, if you want to push a 420a or a 4g64 NA to 300whp im sure it CAN be done but get ready to take out a second mortgage to do it.

Hold on, can i just say that dude was THE MOST ANNOYING HUMAN IVE SEEN IN YEARS, just one last time . I would like to kick his ass. Im surprised someone didnt run out and just knock him cold. Im sure its happened before. Sorry for the rant....
Good luck on whatever path you choose, welcome to DSM land. If you need to reshape cylinders(hahahaha jk bud) just stop and browse these forums and read, read read. Lots to learn but the path to over 500whp is relatively straight forward with the 4g63 and its really not that expensive.

 

[uummm]

Since he is using a SOHC block, won't the pistons need changed anyways (valve reliefs)? Or could he just fly cut the pistons that are in there and use them with lower boost? It's just a thought. Good luck OP with your project, I am doing something similar with a 4g64 for my rx7.

 

[WES_393]

Since he is using a SOHC block, won't the pistons need changed anyways (valve reliefs)? Or could he just fly cut the pistons that are in there and use them with lower boost? It's just a thought. Good luck OP with your project, I am doing something similar with a 4g64 for my rx7.

The 4g64 uses the exact same rods as the 4g63 and nearly identical piston design in terms of pin height, dish volume, and valve reliefs. The block is 6mm taller to compensate for the extra stroke. So the stock 4g64 with DOHC head shouldn't have significantly different piston-valve clearance than a stock 4g63.

(2g 4g63)

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(4g64)

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[GofaST4life]

....the honda crowd...

 

[uummm]

The 4g64 uses the exact same rods as the 4g63 and nearly identical piston design in terms of pin height, dish volume, and valve reliefs. The block is 6mm taller to compensate for the extra stroke. So the stock 4g64 with DOHC head shouldn't have significantly different piston-valve clearance than a stock 4g63.

I know all that. What I was getting at was more that he cannot use the pistons that are in the motor now (unless flycutting valve reliefs would work). Dependent on his power goals, idk that running the stock DOHC 2.4 pistons would be a good idea. I'm sure they can handle a little boost, but if he is looking to make a power monster, it might be a good idea to at least put forged slugs to use. Again, that goes back to depending on what his power goals are and what he expects from the car.